A New Kind of Diversity with Tim Elmore

Mark Cole:

Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. This is the podcast that adds value to leaders who multiply value to others. My name is Mark Cole, and I’m glad to have you, and I’m glad to have an old, an experienced-

Tim Elmore:

Long time.

Mark Cole:

… a long time friend of mine. In fact, to be honest with you, he’s a longer time friend of John Maxwell back on the podcast with me, and that is Dr. Tim Elmore. Tim is an expert in leading different generations and teaching others, not only how to lead well, but how to create healthy work environments and multi-generational teams, despite those gaps that sometimes we’re realizing that often comes with the age difference.

If you recognize Tim Elmore’s name that’s because he’s been on our podcast before. Back in August of last year, Tim came on and you can find the episode link in the show notes today. Now Tim was on then, just like he’s on now because he’s a Maxwell Leadership thought leader. He is somebody that has joined our team to help us lead well in today’s world.

He’s an expert, as I’ve said in the next generation and in multi-generational leadership. Tim’s one of our stellar main stage speakers at Live2Lead. This is an annual leadership conference that we host in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s one of the largest events in the world, and it’ll be larger when you join us, because I want you to join Tim and many other leaders that I’ll talk about in a moment to make a difference for you in how you lead.

The date of this event is October the 7th, 2022. Dr. Elmore will be a featured speaker alongside of John Maxwell, Eric Thomas, Patrick Lencioni, Doris Kearns Goodwin. It’s going to be a very special day and it will be better when you’re with us. If you’d like to join Tim and this lineup in person, all you need to do is go to live2lead.com. That’s live, the number 2, lead.com. You’ll be able to pick up your tickets there.

Well, Tim, I’m pumped to have you back.

Tim Elmore:

I’m excited.

Mark Cole:

I’m so excited. And I want to welcome you. Thanks for coming back.

Tim Elmore:

Oh, it’s always a pleasure, Mark.

Mark Cole:

Yeah. And one of the things that I’m super excited about is what we’re going to discuss today, because you’re now working to really make a difference with a new kind of diversity, no pun intended, but that’s the name of your book. And so what I would love to do Tim, is I want you to just take us back to why this book, why now, why the topic and what are you wanting to accomplish with this book?

Tim Elmore:

Mark, we’ve noticed for at least two to three, maybe five years that we live in a very polarized world. It seems like we’re divided on almost every issue. Sometimes the divisions are marked on generational lines. In other words, there’s a younger generation that sees this issue this way and an older generation that remains stubborn perhaps, but just doesn’t see it that way.

So we’ve been talking for years about ethnic diversity, gender diversity, income diversity. They’re all very real and we need to keep talking about them, but I have been noting for years now, there’s a generational diversity. Some work teams have four or five generations working on the same team and they often bring different worldviews and it affects the way they collaborate or communicate what they value. And sometimes a manager or a CEO just goes, “I don’t get this.” And then, because it’s work to build bridges to those younger generations or older, we just tend to hang around the people we like, and that are like us. So this book is about building bridges rather than walls with those other generations.

Mark Cole:

It’s so interesting because you hear the word diversity, there’s a lot of use of that word now, and thank God. I mean, isn’t it good that we’re going to include and yet appreciate diversity? And then now you’ve brought this concept. I love this. The first time you told me I went, “Yes, I deal with that as a leader.” Podcast listeners, you’re dealing with it as a leader, even if you don’t know, but this book is going to help you.

You state in this book that the generation gap, which was first noted in the 1960s is even wider today, making collaboration, making synergy, making teamwork even more challenging than ever. Talk to us a little bit about … Unpack that problem for us.

Tim Elmore:

Well, I think the change is more rapid today because technology is released much more rapidly. So our children have grown up in a very different world than the one we grew up in. We can’t just keep saying, well, when I was a kid, I walked up hill both ways in the snow. They’re so tired of hearing that.

So I have a theory, we really became more and more divided when our screens, the screens in our life went from public to private. So when I was growing up and this is way back in the day, we had one screen in our house. It was a black and white TV back in the ’60s. We watched The Dick Van Dyke Show, but we were all together watching one screen. Then our home started having more than one screen, two TVs, three TVs. Sometimes our kids had a screen in their bedroom. So we’re now consuming different content.

Then we got computers. At first, it was just one in the kitchen. We all knew what was on it. Then we started moving toward, we’ve all got our own mobile device. And a teenager today can have an Instagram account that mom and dad know about, but five Finsta accounts, fake Instagrams, where they develop personas and mom and dad have no idea.

Now that’s maybe a vivid illustration of something, but I think even in our workplace, we might have a 22 year old that just joined the team. We’re 58 or 62 or whatever we are and we’re going, “I don’t even understand you.” But Mark, I think we not only need to understand them, we need to leverage the strength that gen Z kid has and then the millennials, and then the Xers. If we could leverage the strengths, they all bring, we could absolutely make it a competitive advantage in our organizations.

Mark Cole:

So I want to go to the next question, but I’m a dad of a 15 year old.

Tim Elmore:

Okay.

Mark Cole:

So you’re telling me that the Instagram account I just approved to her, may be just one of many?

Tim Elmore:

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Mark Cole:

I counted before this deal, I have four generations that work for us, four generations according to your book, and we’re going to get into that. And you’re telling me that in those four generations, specifically with the younger generation, there’s a chance they have a work life and a private life and the private life I may not know anything about?

Tim Elmore:

Absolutely. In fact, Mark, here’s how I try to profile this in the book. You know when you fly to another country, you just got back from another country, when you go to another country, you naturally psych yourselves up to work harder at connecting with people because they are in a different country. They have different language, Spanish maybe, different values, different customs.

Bingo. I think the millennials or the gen Zers could have their different language, different values and different customs, but are we willing to put the work in to connect with that 25 year old that we go, “I don’t even like you.” We wouldn’t say it out loud, but yet there’s so much they bring to the team.

And I’m afraid we just, particularly after a pandemic, but we just say, “I’m just going to default to the way I’ve always done it,” and we can’t afford to do that today.

Mark Cole:

Wow. Wow. All right. So I’m a leader of, I’ve already said, four generations, I want to lead at home the next generation. Talk to me about some key questions I need to be asking and listening to, to do a better job of closing that generational gap.

Tim Elmore:

Yeah. So I use the word worldview, that may be a big term, but I think we all have glasses on figuratively speaking. We have a lens with which we see the world. By the way, we saw this vividly during the protest of 2020, Black Lives Matter. Everybody agrees Black lives matter, but the millennials had such a different view than the boomers, if you look at the data.

And it wasn’t that one’s wrong, one’s right, but they just clashed. I heard parents and children clashing when the child was 24, the parent was 51. So I think we need to recognize, and I need to ask myself, am I putting the glasses on that my daughter has at 15, or that my team member has at 35, or 46, or whatever?

So our organization that is merging with you guys, we’ve got four generations too, and Mark, I do this for a living and I struggled with some of our gen Zers. I love them, I believe in them, but I was struggling because I thought you don’t understand what we’ve been through. I’m waving my hands like George Costanza. And I realized I had become my father. So I’m having to work myself at making sure I’m looking at it through the lens that they have.

Mark Cole:

Yeah, you know I did a self calculation again because you’ve just got me on the realization that I love the highlight that we’re bringing to some of these people groups, some of these cultures that have been minimized and devalued because we’re all about here at the Maxwell Leadership Podcast and our entire organization, we’re about valuing all people. And so I’m really acutely aware of all this diversity talk and all this exclusion, inclusion talk that we have going on.

But I was reflecting the other day, Tim, I don’t know how this happened, it snuck up on me. And this is the truth, but it snuck up on me because I realized after reading your book and after listening to your content, I’m the oldest person on our leadership team.

Tim Elmore:

Interesting.

Mark Cole:

I don’t know when that happened, somebody wake me up. And it was in realizing this that I realized that while I can say words like drip and fab and all the stuff my teenage daughter teaches me, that I’m not as cool and as relevant as I thought I was and I need what you’re giving us.

And I can tell you this right here, we have more questions, please stay right there. But I know before I get to more questions, I know if you’re already like me, you’re going, “Whoa, I woke up and I’m one of the older people,” or, “I’m not as relatable.” Or perhaps you’re like our intern here, Kyle that’s in the studio, the wiz, you’re in a college environment and you’re trying to figure out, how do I get people to notice I have an opinion too.

There is a book coming out, that’s what we’re talking about today called A New Kind of Diversity. And if you’re like me, you’re saying, “Okay, this is good. I can’t wait for the next question, but can I go ahead and order this already?” And I get it, I’ve got a bias to action too. And our team has made it so easy for you. Write it down, get ready. If you’re watching, get ready. The website is newdiversitybook.com, newdiversitybook.com. You can order it.

I’m going to challenge all of you that are leaders. And Tim, on this podcast, 95%, we just got our survey results back in, 95% of the people watching and listening today are leaders of two or more people, some up to a thousand or more people are watching today. You need to get this for key leaders in your organization too. They need to understand there’s another diversity out there that we have not even begun to realize.

So by ordering today, you’ll be able to receive bonus content from Dr. Elmore. We’re going to have a lot of stuff at that website, and I want you to go. But let me tell you what else is at this website, newdiversitybook.com. We’re going to have a free assessment on that site. We’re going to have some other content. We’re going to help you bridge the gap of the generational diversity in your organization. What is this assessment that we’re talking about?

Tim Elmore:

Mark, we’re really excited about this. We have a team working on this. We believe we’re going to be able to offer a tool, an instrument that allows a person to uncover what generation do I think like. I may be an Xer, but I think like a millennial. Or I may be, I don’t know, a baby boomer, but I think like my grandpa, you know that sort of thing. And you and I, both, I borrowed from my parents’ generation. I have some values that I passed on to my kids. I just think it’s going to help us lubricate the friction that happens.

I’ll give you a good example. Megan Gerhardt is a leadership prof at Miami University. She gave an assignment to her college students to think of an organization you’re aware of and talk about how diversity could help. One young lady said, “Dr. Gerhardt, I’m sorry. I was going to study my dad’s family business, but we have no diversity at all. They’re all white males, 17 of them.” And Megan thought for a minute and she goes, “Okay, no diversity?” She said, “What are their age spans?” The student had an epiphany, 17 to 70. And of course, Megan said, “You’ve got diversity right there.”

Well, they started getting these generations to collaborate. The 17, 18, 19 year olds were saying, “We could use drones to the ag machines that we got down South.” and of course the older generation had lots of-

Mark Cole:

What’s a drone. How do you spell that?

Tim Elmore:

Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. Did you say dome? What is that? So anyway, the point of course, was that all generations, once they were brought to the table and we were listening and hearing. I love what David Augsburger said, he said, “Listening is so close to loving that for the average person it’s almost indistinguishable.”

Mark Cole:

Wow.

Tim Elmore:

And Mark, I like to talk more than listen. You probably do too.

Mark Cole:

I do. I do. I do.

Tim Elmore:

But when I listen to my own kids who are 34 and 30, and when you listen to your kids, and then the young team members, suddenly the dignity we pass on is immeasurable I think.

Mark Cole:

You see these games pop up as an ad in whatever app that you pull, test your brain age. How good are you at solving word problems and that kind of thing? Well, this is test your generational thinking.

Tim Elmore:

Yeah. Yeah, it is.

Mark Cole:

I love this. I’m sitting here going, “I wonder how young or old I think,” and this assessment’s going to help me do that.

Tim Elmore:

Yeah, it will, it will.

Mark Cole:

Again, that is newdiversitybook.com. You can go there right now. The assessment’s already there. Your ability to order you a copy, multiple people a copy, that’s all at newdiversitybook.com. Get your copy, take the assessment today.

Okay, Tim, back to some more questions, but thank you. Thanks for making this assessment. I’m so excited. My brain age in one game was 38, my brain age in another was 72, so I’m somewhere right in the middle. I can’t wait to see what my generational age is. I’m taking it today. I’ll beat you to it.

All right, so what are some of the most common things that create discord between generations in a workplace environment?

Tim Elmore:

Yeah, good question. Well, first of all, I remember I had to size up with our four generations on the team that what speaks bonus to them might be very, very different. So a baby boomer might go, “For me, corner office, more pay, better title.” And while that’s valuable to anybody, a gen Zer might go, “I want more meaningful work. What are we doing for the community?” That sort of thing. And while we all value all of it, I think we need to recognize a bonus for a gen Z or a millennial might be a little different than it is for a boomer.

Mark Cole:

Wow. I agree.

Tim Elmore:

Communication styles you know are very different.

Mark Cole:

Mm-hmm.

Tim Elmore:

I know gen Zers that have been known to quit a job on a text message because they didn’t have the courage to face their boss and go, “I need to give you two weeks.” They gave no notice. They were just, I’m out of here, or they ghosted their boss.

And again, I don’t want to throw the young people under the bus, I’m just saying we’re going to have to meet in the middle. The youth always represent the future. They always represent the future and where it’s going. So if we meet in the middle and build a bridge, rather than a wall, which we are tempted to do, I think we’ve got something here. We can really leverage it well.

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Mark Cole:

There is an excerpt in this book, and this is not in the questions I asked you to be prepared to answer. There is an excerpt in this book that I’ve asked our entire team, don’t put that out, except in the book. You can’t get it online. You’re not going to get it as a download. And this excerpt that’s in the book, that is this chart, this two page chart that is just absolutely unbelievable. It’s worth the entire price of the book, plus some, and it’s really a tool that is going to help us. I want you to just give a snippet.

Tim Elmore:

Okay.

Mark Cole:

Don’t give the whole thing away because I want people to buy the book. And let me tell you why I want them to buy the book because to understand this chart is one thing to see where you are, but to know what to do about it, which is what this entire book’s about. So tell us just a taste of this chart. Okay?

Tim Elmore:

The chart’s my favorite part of the book too. It’s two full pages. So there it is. And you can see in one broad brushstroke, at least the paradigms or the narratives or the perspectives that each generation has. So in the chart … By the way, Mark, I need to add this just for the listener’s sake. We’re living at a time for the first time in modern history, where there are seven sociological generations living at the same time.

Mark Cole:

Wow.

Tim Elmore:

The oldest would be my Uncle Gene and Aunt Wanda, 99 and 97 years old.

Mark Cole:

Wow.

Tim Elmore:

The youngest would be the alpha generation, which are the elementary school kids and younger, but seven distinct paradigms. You think about that youngest generation, which I deeply care about, a six year old today, a third of their life has been in masks, not building interpersonal skills because they were shut up at home.

Mark Cole:

Wow.

Tim Elmore:

So we got to be thinking-

Mark Cole:

And you put that onto already the screens that’s already made us isolate, then the masks.

Tim Elmore:

Yeah, I know.

Mark Cole:

Wow.

Tim Elmore:

So that’s the appendix of the book I add a little alpha generation thing for readers, a little bonus. But I believe that knowing that there’s seven generations and then four or five are in the workplace, we do well to say, “I need to understand your mindset. How can we leverage it? How do I understand it?”

So the chart, Mark, outlines the builder generation. That would be my mom and dad’s generation. My dad passed away in 2020, at 90 years old. His paradigm was, just be grateful you got a job. And I shouldn’t say that way, but my dad was awesome, but he just passed away, 90 years old. Well, Mark, I’d go, “Be grateful I got a job? I am grateful, but Dad, I started the company.” “Well, just be grateful you got a …” “Yes sir. Yes sir.”

So then the baby boomers came along, that’s my generation. That’s John Maxwell’s generation. John would be an early baby boomer. I would be a later baby boomer, 1946 to ’64. We were called boomers because there was a boom of babies born right after World War II, 76.4 million kids. And by the way, the reason that’s a big deal is everybody paid attention to the boomers, as we were growing up. They wanted our eventual dollar as a customer.

Xers, come next. I think you’re an Xer.

Mark Cole:

Yep.

Tim Elmore:

So gen X was first called baby busters because there was a bust, not a boom. The contraceptive or the birth control pill, Roe V. Wade made your generation much, much smaller. So you grew up in the shadows of those baby boomers. Maybe you had to fight a little bit harder to get that promotion because the boomers kept sticking around.

Mark Cole:

Sticking around, that’s right. That’s right.

Tim Elmore:

And then the millennials. By the way, we’ve thrown the millennials under the bus for 15 years, bless their hearts.

Mark Cole:

What a great generation.

Tim Elmore:

Yes, they really are, and they’re the largest. Millennials are now 80 million strong, bigger than the boomers. And they’re now the majority of the workforce.

So I don’t know what you’re leading listeners, but we can’t say, “Well, I’m just going to avoid them.” No, they’re going to be taking over soon. So they’re young professionals. Boomers I believe grew up in a time of digital customization. Their paradigm is life is a buffet, it’s a cafeteria. I’m picking and choosing. I’m a free agent on the job, thank you very much. I’m picking and choosing. By the way, I’m picking and choosing my faith, a little bit of Jesus, a little bit of Buddha, a little bit of Oprah Winfrey, put it together, so wow. Well, that’s how they look at life.

And then gen Z, the newest kids on the block showing up at work full time. I believe their life paradigm deserves empathy from their leader. I feel like if I were to summarize it in a phrase, it would be I’m coping and hoping.

So think about the last 20 years, three economic downturns, inflation now like we’ve never seen. My daughter’s trying to buy a house and she’s wondering will I ever be able to afford one. It’s a different day today and I think we do well to really lead with empathy. Even if they need more grit, let’s start with empathy and then take them where they need to go.

Mark Cole:

Podcast listeners, podcast viewers, that’s why we call Tim Elmore the expert right there. You want that. Let’s go to this chapter that you call managing preferences, tensions and expectations.

Tim Elmore:

Yeah.

Mark Cole:

Here’s what I’d love for you to do. What is it about each of these that are challenging yet so beneficial for a leader to know in a work environment?

Tim Elmore:

Yeah, it’s a great question, Mark. I hope I give you a decent answer on this one. So that chapter, expectations, tensions, I think it’s good for leaders to remember, you and I both know this, that problems need to be solved, but tensions need to be managed. They’re not going to go away.

Like sales and operations, there’ll always be a little bit of a tension there. These guys want it all organized, these guys want to generate more revenue. Well, we need both, but we’re going to need to give the sales some leeway to do what they need to do. You get that as a CEO.

Mark Cole:

Yep, I do get that.

Tim Elmore:

So we need to just recognize tensions will always be around. But here’s an illustration, I put it in the book, that might be helpful, just tease our listeners. I talk about Antonio and Maggie. Maggie’s a general manager for this company. Antonio is a 20-something that started work there. And he went through the interview and seemed to be a good worker. He turned out to be a good worker until one day Maggie sees him showing up with a short sleeve shirt and a gigantic tattoo.

Now a tattoo’s not a cardinal sin, but at this company they have a policy, no tattoos. So she pulls him aside and says, “Antonio, why didn’t you tell me.” “Well, I wanted to get hired.” “But you lied, misrepresented yourself.” Antonio thought Maggie was attacking his very identity, because for his generation by and large, not everyone, but by and large this is my very identity, the piercings, the tattoos, perhaps. So they had a really … it was a friction moment. And of course the rest of the team watching very closely, how was Maggie going to lead through these troubled waters.

Bottom line is this took weeks, but Maggie sits down with Antonio and says, “I want to meet in the middle. You’re obviously hired and you’re a good worker. I don’t want to lose you. I want you to make sure that when you show up at work, you’re wearing long sleeve shirts because the rest of the team’s going to question, why did I let you stay when they couldn’t have that tattoo or that piercing, that sort of thing.”

Yeah. She made Antonio get in front of the team with her and they both talked about how they met in the middle, disaster averted. But it was a very shrewd leader that met in the middle and said, “We’re going to make our way through this without …” And then she talked to corporate and said, “We might want to change this tattoo … Let’s just look at it again.” And I think sometimes we older leaders need to say, “Why did we put that in place? Is there really a good reason?”

Mark Cole:

Wow. All right. We got our producers, our associate producers, show me the tattoos, guys, show me the tattoos, lift your sleeves. It’s true. It’s true. And it’s a generational thing.

Tim Elmore:

It is, it is.

Mark Cole:

It’s not a right or wrong thing.

Tim Elmore:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Cole:

I love this. All right, what does it mean to be flexible without giving in? What does this mean? And then how can we develop maturity in this area?

Tim Elmore:

Yeah, that’s a great question. And again, I hope I give this question justice. I really believe the job of a leader, especially today in a polarized world is showing that we’re being flexible, that we’re adapting, but we’re not giving in on the core. So the difference is on my core, my core values, my core principles, the stuff John Maxwell taught us for years, I am not compromising on that core. If you don’t like that, can I show you another place you might want to work? And I don’t mean that in a demeaning way, let me help you find another job, because this is who we are. But on almost everything else we’re just showing, at least demonstrating I’m willing to listen. I’m willing to flex. I’m willing to be adaptable.

So at our workplace, Mark, I tell you, I had to do this recently. Our team was wanting as a perk more flex time, when do we come in? When do we work, virtually? And so we decided at Growing Leaders, now that we’re merging with you, we give unlimited PTO, unlimited personal time off.

Now in contrast, or the other side of that coin is we’ll hire only responsible people that would say, “I so don’t want to let my teammates down. I won’t take too much.” But I’m telling you Mark, do you know what kind of trust that communicated to our team? Unlimited personal … Really? It makes them not want to take too much. And then when they do, they don’t feel guilty, they don’t feel like the boss is going to call them up, what are you taking a day off for? It’s just bonded us. I have seen a bonding take place at Growing Leaders that I haven’t seen up to this point, and I think it was us flexing.

Mark Cole:

And I love that you answered the question of maturity with the word flexibility, flexing and moving. And I love that and I love how you’re going to unpack that in the book. All right, so what happens a lot of times in diversity is we see some stereotyping.

Tim Elmore:

Yeah, we do.

Mark Cole:

And that’s the counter productivity piece to recognizing diversity, and then you start stereotyping. So I’m want to ask you this.

Tim Elmore:

Okay.

Mark Cole:

What are some ways we, as leaders can better understand the next generation without stereotyping it?

Tim Elmore:

Yeah, that’s a great question. It’s a fabulous question. You get five points for that one.

Mark Cole:

Thank you.

Tim Elmore:

Yeah, you’re welcome.

Mark Cole:

Thank you.

Tim Elmore:

So first of all, listeners just hear me real quick. It’s so easy to stereotype, to pigeonhole generations. All baby boomers are stubborn, all gen Xers are jaded, all millennials are narcissistic, and all gen Zers are fragile snowflakes. Haven’t we all heard those terms?

Mark Cole:

We have. You did that so well and so quick. Is that not what you and I have been thinking on this podcast? I’m pointing to all of our viewers, but the listeners are saying, “Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.”

Tim Elmore:

It’s true. Aren’t they fragile? Aren’t they snowflakes? So by the way, I wrote a blog post recently, how to turn a snowflake into a snowman, and I really think part of what we need to do, because we created the snow … If they exist, we did it as moms and dads and bosses.

Mark Cole:

Yep.

Tim Elmore:

So here’s what I would say, the goal of this book is not to stereotype, but to understand, not to stereotype, but to understand. So it’s just like with anybody you meet, I want to understand that person from the Dominican Republic. I don’t think I’ve had the same story that you’ve had. And you were just down there. Oh my gosh, great people.

Mark Cole:

Yeah.

Tim Elmore:

So that’s the first thing I would say. Secondly, I think what we need to do is listen, empathize and guide. I give these three words all the time.

Mark Cole:

Don’t miss that. Listen, empathize and guide.

Tim Elmore:

You know I’m kind of cheesy.

Mark Cole:

I love that.

Tim Elmore:

I learned it from John Maxwell.

Mark Cole:

Yes, exactly, but it sticks, it sticks.

Tim Elmore:

So it spells the word leg. This is the leg we have to stand on.

Mark Cole:

I love it.

Tim Elmore:

First, I need to listen. That makes them feel heard. Then I need to empathize. That makes them feel understood. Then I’ve earned the right to offer some guidance and say, “That totally makes sense. Let me show you how we got to this place in our company and why we do this, this way.” Maybe we want to maybe reexamine this, but we’ve earned the right to say that. Yes, we got a badge. Yeah, we’re the CEO, but boy, when I lean in and I don’t lead from positional power, but from personal power, I win them over. So that would be my short answer to that. And I talk about that in the book.

Mark Cole:

It may be a short answer, but boy, that’s loaded, Tim. Thank you so much. All right, next question. John Maxwell has said that managers treat everyone the same, but leaders treat everyone differently. And so tell me about this idea of chess versus checkers.

Tim Elmore:

Yeah. So I offer a lot of metaphors in this book. Metaphors are just how I think, and of course they’re built off of habitudes, which the Maxwell world will be using and so forth. So listeners, habitudes are simply images that form leadership habits and attitudes. This is easy to remember.

Chess and checkers are two games that are played on the very same game board, but after that, it’s all contrast. When I play checkers, all my pieces look alike, they all move alike, so I treat them all alike. In chess, I have to know what each piece can do, a bishop, a rook, a pawn and a king, a queen. Only in knowing the strength of each piece can I win. I think mediocre leaders play checkers with their people. They treat them all alike and they get average performance, great leaders do the work to play chess. It’s harder. Chess is harder and chess takes longer. Isn’t it true of those two games?

Mark Cole:

That’s so true.

Tim Elmore:

Same with leadership. So when I play chess, I realize that Mark Cole in front of me, you’ve got a unique blend of talents and passions and gifts that I need to understand, if I’m going to get the very best out of you. And of course people want to give their best, they want to win. So instead of an adversarial relationship, when I play chess, I start having a win them over relationship and now they want to be around and be asked questions. So that’s chess and checkers, and I think we need to do the work to play chess.

Mark Cole:

So let me tell you what I’m taking away that I’m going to get from this book. I believe this, leaders have two responsibilities before they even get in front of their people, know where they are, know where they’re going. A leader’s responsibility is to define reality. We quoted that from Max de Pree. Know where you are, know where you’re going.

This book with the assessment is going to tell me where I am. And I want to know how I think, how old am I in my thinking, how old am I in my language and in my connectability, but it’s also going to help me know how to go, meaning how to connect with the next generation.

Tim Elmore:

That’s exactly right.

Mark Cole:

Tell me, and this is kind of on the spot, but tell me if you will, I’m a leader of all these generations, I’m going to buy this book and then I’m going to try to take my team on a journey to help me get there. Tell me how have you done that so effectively? You’re a business leader too. You run companies, you go and speak all over the world. How can I, as a leader, learn this concept, know where I am, know where I’m going? But how do I begin to interject this content and this idea into my workplace?

Tim Elmore:

Yeah, that’s a great question. Mark, one of the images that I have fallen in love with that we created, I think might be at least part of the answer. It may be one of my top five metaphors that I elect to use, and it’s the one I need to do what you just asked. It’s simply called guard dogs and guide dogs.

So guard dogs and guide dogs are two jobs we’ve given canines over the years. The guard dog’s job is very different than the guide dog. So it’s to sniff out intruders in that fenced in area with the dog house and the bone out there. He’s sniffing out trouble, barking, growling, looking for intruders. His job is to protect.

The guide dog’s job, their job is to partner. So they got somebody that needs a little vision, they can’t see well. The guide dog’s job is to lead them the way, go first, take initiative, be transparent, be vulnerable. Actually going first means I’m vulnerable. I think our brain naturally defaults to guard dog. Our amygdala kicks in fight or flight. Mark, today so many leaders are in a protective, can I say self-protecting mode, where I don’t want to-

Mark Cole:

Sure.

Tim Elmore:

I hold my cards close to my … I’m giving cards here. I’m showing cards. And I think what I needed to do the last couple years, especially, I needed my team to see a guide dog, I’m vulnerable. I may say, “Gosh, this is scary. Isn’t it?” And they go, “Really? Seriously? You’re scared too?” Now I’m not losing my stuff here, but I let them know I’m human, I’m mortal. And when I lean in like that, they go, “Good. At least you’re human and I know you understand the human condition.” So I would just say, listeners, let’s be a guide dog to partner, not a guard dog to protect.

Mark Cole:

Brilliant. Tim, I could go on and on and on. We will have you back. You’re one of our thought leaders, so we’ll be back. I told you guys he’s an expert and he is, and I want to thank you today.

Tim Elmore:

Oh my pleasure.

Mark Cole:

Now just forget those that don’t buy the book. They’re procrastinating, like we talked about a few weeks ago, but-

Tim Elmore:

Well, they may be old. They may just be old.

Mark Cole:

They may be like me. Yes.

Tim Elmore:

I’m just totally kidding. I’m totally kidding.

Mark Cole:

No. But there’s going to be many that gets this book, there’s going to be tons that take the assessment. But thank you for adding value today. That’s what we try to do at the podcast. That’s our passion is to add value and you’ve added tremendous value.

I want to remind you if you’re watching today or if you’re listening, I want you to go grab Tim’s book. I promise you, this book will help you and it’ll help your leadership. You can go to newdiversitybook.com. I’m going to say it again, newdiversitybook.com. You’re going to be able to have the assessment. We’re going to give some bonus material of Tim teaching. You’re going to be able to order the book in bulk. Get your organization understanding this new kind of diversity. And Tim, I’m so glad you’re going to be with us on October the 7th.

Tim Elmore:

Me too.

Mark Cole:

This event, L2L, I promise you this, Tim, and then I’m going to talk to our podcast audience, it’s going to make a difference for you too. Every speaker, every world class expert we bring in, walk away from L2L and they go, “This Live2Lead event is one of my favorite things that I’ve ever done. I’m so glad.” So I promised you a good experience.

And for those of you that’ll join us in Atlanta, October the 7th, we want to have you. Tim and a lot of his friends are going to be on stage. That is live2lead.com. If you want to get tickets, you want to know more information, go to live, the number 2, lead.com.

Now I tell you this all the time, I’m going to tell you again, take this podcast, apply it to yourself, apply it to your work environment and create positive, powerful change, because everyone deserves to be led well.