Executive Podcast #351: But I Don’t Feel Charismatic

Perry Holley:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holly a Maxwell Leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:
I’m Chris Goede, executive vice president with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining today. We’re going to dive in and super excited about this title today because oftentimes people think that you need to be this to be a leader. And I don’t necessarily attribute this to my own kind of way that I lead. But after today, I hope you’ll see it a little bit differently because I think there are ways for us to be able to do this. And you’re like, well, what are you talking about? I’m going to tell you that in just a minute. But if you’ll go to MaxwellLeadership.com/ExecutivePodcast, there you can learn more about the five levels of leadership, the 360 degree leader that we love, teaching inside organizations and or coaching team members through that process. I want you to go there, visit, you can fill out the form, leave us a question, we’ll get back to you.

Chris Goede:
Our team will respond, but we would love to hear from you. Thank you for watching and bringing this content to your team. Well, today’s topic is. But I don’t feel charismatic. Now listen, when I think about somebody that’s charismatic, right? I think about somebody that just comes in and startles people with coloration almost kind of like an orange tree frog. It’s like, bam, there I am. And that’s how they try to get rid of their. That’s probably the deepest leadership thought that I’ve ever gave you.

Perry Holley:
But well, the orange tree frog is out of bounds. I mean, that really sets. I thought you said it really well.

Chris Goede:
Like, I mean it’s just like there I am a charismatic leader. And that’s not what we’re going to talk about today. And this is actually based off of and we’re going to a book that John just recently came out with called the Charismatic Leader. And so super excited about this. For those of you that are watching on YouTube, Perry is not holding a orange tree frog. It’s actually John’s book, the the Charismatic Leader. I want to start with this story though. This probably would go down as one of the most charismatic presidents that we’ve ever had.

Chris Goede:
And so this story is going to speak into and lead us right into the conversation we want to have today. And it is called the Balloon Guy. So during the 2004 Democratic National Convention, Bill Clinton was backstage after his speech, waiting for the big balloon drop. But there was a problem. The balloons weren’t dropping. I know you’ve probably been on stages before, and, like, you’re like, I hate.

Perry Holley:
It when that happens.

Chris Goede:
Something’s not in your. Waiting for a marker, and it just. Just like, right? So then they find out that, okay, there’s a problem. The technicians were frantically trying to fix it, and the tension was rising. Suddenly, Clinton, ever the charismatic charmer, strolled over to the balloon drop operator, put his hand on the guy’s shoulders, and said, don’t worry, you’re doing great. But if you could get those balloons down, you’d be doing even better. Now, can you imagine that individual in that moment? The president, you know, at that convention saying that to you? So then he flashed his grin, Adam, and everyone burst out laughing. And the stressed out technician was even part of that.

Chris Goede:
And he just probably completely neutralized the stress in the moment. The ice was broken, and then the balloons finally dropped. So here’s the. Here’s what we’re trying to get at. The moral of the story, right? Charisma is not just about, like, being loud and colorful and commanding the room. That’s not what we’re talking about here. It’s about making people and connecting with them so they feel at ease. There’s no awkward moments.

Chris Goede:
And this Clint’s ability to inject humor in this situation and warmth and connection to that individual, that technician who thought, oh, dear, gosh, I’m failing everybody in the entire United States right now is how do you. How he turned that stress into smiles? And I have a feeling that because of that, those balloons dropped a little bit faster than if they wouldn’t have. So I love it. I love the story, and it really gives a look at what charisma is versus what people think it is. And that’s what we’re going to unpack today.

Perry Holley:
Yeah. And that’s. Most people you would say about having charisma being charismatic is that I either have it or you don’t, and I’m just not charismatic. And you had to be born with it. But you have to be, you know, attractive and tall and athletic and talented. And looking at two of us, that doesn’t hurt?

Chris Goede:
No, no. I mean, it’s helped a little bit. You know, we’re just saying. Not saying.

Perry Holley:
But in the book, John makes it very clear, just like that we say leaders are. Are made. They’re not born. That you have to. You can Learn leadership, you can learn charisma as well. And so what’s the secret to charisma? It’s simple. It’s about focusing on other people. And if to be charismatic, you just need to care about other people and make them feel important.

Perry Holley:
Can you care about someone and make them feel important? And you think about the Clinton story that you know, he had a way of doing that, just making the. I heard this in many places. If you read about him that when you’re in his presence, he, he paid attention to you, you felt, seen, you felt important. Even though he was the leader of the free world, you felt important.

Chris Goede:
Right.

Perry Holley:
And I, I just love that, the simplicity of that. Now we can talk about some things we can do to. And that’s what the book goes into, the skills needed to connect. But I hear, as we say it here all the time, we don’t care what business you’re in, you’re in the people business. We think we’re not in leadership development, we’re in the people business doing leadership development.

Chris Goede:
That’s right.

Perry Holley:
And so everything’s a people business.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
And this is going to be important. If, if you’re going to connect with others, you’re going to have drive. Your charisma is going to be about how do you care for them.

Chris Goede:
Just like we say that in the five levels, moving from level, level one to level two to connect with people, you have to be very intentional. You got to develop the skill set to be able to do that. And that’s what you’re telling us right here, is that this can be developed and this is a skill set. Some of the things we’re going to talk about today that will root in success, your ability to have level two influence with people. If you understand this and I love what you’re talking about there, about how do we focus on others. And our mission statement here at Max Leadership is how do we add value to leaders? Right. So they can multiply that value into others. And so not only are we focusing on them for first, but then it’s going to make them feel important as they’re helping lead other people and change their lives.

Chris Goede:
And so that in essence is what we’re talking about here in the book. To no one’s surprise, John reveals 21 skills to connect with people. John loves using numbers tied to books. Five levels and 21. Here is a three part model that I want to share with you. Number one, become interested in people. Now nothing we’re going to share with you today is life altering.

Perry Holley:
Like you’re like, oh my gosh, that was rocket science.

Chris Goede:
No, this, it’s, it’s something that’s very simple but yet not easy to do. And people forget it. Right. They get focused on, on, on themselves. The second one, become invested in people. So interested in people, invested in people. And then number three, become interesting. Two people remember this order.

Chris Goede:
I think the order is extremely important. Right. Because if someone comes to me and we start connecting, they want to be extremely interesting to me right away. I’m not connecting with them. I’ll kind of put a wall up and shut down. And so we’re gonna, we don’t have time, you know, to walk through all 21, but we are going to walk through a couple of them. And here’s what I love what Perry talked about. These can be developed.

Chris Goede:
And so I think that there is hope even for the most non charismatic leaders that are out there right now.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, I like. And we always love the way John writes. It’s simple and it’s written for guys like us who need it kind of spelled out. And they all start with an I. But this invested in others, interested in others and be interesting to others. You said it’s, it’s easy. And I’m thinking Jim Rohn had a quote. He said it’s, it’s so easy to do, it’s easy not to do.

Perry Holley:
And we don’t do it. We just, it just seems like. Didn’t I do that? No. And you, you said it. Well, I’m kind of focused on me and what I’ve got going on. And so this idea of charisma comes out of the nature of others orientation and noticing others. So the first one starts with becoming interested in other people and what you care about people. Do you learn about them? Will you find them? Do you find them interesting? We go talk about curiosity.

Perry Holley:
We’ve got another podcast on that. But do you believe the best of others and extend to them grace and forgiveness? It’s a very winning quality. I just noticed that people are connected to people who are interested in them.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
And you, you’ve never really walked away from somebody who was showing interest in you.

Chris Goede:
No.

Perry Holley:
It connects people with that. So again, sounds easy.

Chris Goede:
No. Yeah. It all comes down to how do you see people.

Perry Holley:
Now I ask this question all the time.

Chris Goede:
This, this is interesting because I think Perry and I would, would tell you that we see people as we are. Right. Not as they are now that this is a maybe a whole nother podcast because it’s how then you’re looking internally at yourself. So you need to evaluate that and assess that. But what we’re trying to get to today is what is the lens that you now see people at? And do you believe deep down that you put a tent on their head? John is notorious for this. John is. He believes in people and he sees people for the best until they’re not. And that’s how he goes, goes about it.

Chris Goede:
Here’s why he goes about it that way. His, his father, Melvin, who I’ve had the chance to, to meet and spend time with over the years until he passed away, was a tremendous leader. Here’s what he taught him and a statement that we have for, from Melvin to John, he said, listen, John, he said, if you will value people, believe in them and love them unconditionally, if you do those things every single day to the people around you, you will be successful. That’s, that’s his dad explaining to John how to be a charismatic leader. Now, not in there was any boisterous thing that happened. Anybody showing a bunch of color and bling bling and all this stuff. No, no. It was about valuing people believing in them and unconditionally them believing in it.

Chris Goede:
That’s how you become charismatic.

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Perry Holley:
You just cannot be charismatic or come across that way to others. If you don’t appreciate people and see them in a positive light and, and truly, people disappoint people 100%, they’re going.

Chris Goede:
To let you down.

Perry Holley:
This is not about them being worthy. This is about you giving and, and valuing them. John quotes Les Giblin, a friend of his in the book, about that you can’t make an A fellow feel important if secretly, in your present, you secretly feel you don’t like him, you think he’s a nobody. You can’t. If I think you’re Nobody behind your back. I’m not going to make you feel valued to your face. So it’s.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, and they can see right through that too.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, people can tell. Yeah, they can. And John will tell you that people rise to your level of how you make them feel. They’ll rise to your level of expectation. But he just talks in the book. We won’t dive into it. But it goes into. At this level of.

Perry Holley:
In being interested in others is that you show value to people. Do you make yourself more valuable to people? And do you know what people value? Then you think about those three things, is that it starts with me valuing you, then it says that how can I make myself more valuable to you?

Chris Goede:
Right.

Perry Holley:
And then do I even understand what it is you value? So you think if you leader, if you did that for everybody on your team, just had a little. Three little lines and says, okay, I’m gonna. How can I value Chris? How can I make myself more valuable to Chris? And how can I understand what Chris values? Yeah, yeah, you’re just making yourself more attractive 100%.

Chris Goede:
And I love what you said. Right. There are harder people to like than others, and so this is harder to do with others. Depending on your behavioral traits, your temperament, whether or not you ignore long emails or you want to have phone calls, like, there are people that you really have to work hard to figure out what these three are. But I love this because this is very simple. If you. You guys hear us talk about creating cheat sheets and spreadsheets, you know what. What is there? What are their values? What is their personality? How do they like to be led? Like, you need to know that.

Chris Goede:
And these three go right along with that. And so John has also talked about how do we continue to give people the AAA treatment. And for the aaa, what he’s talking about is, again, how do we give them attention? Now, that is. I love what you said just a minute ago. Like, being in their presence. Like being present when you’re in their presence.

Perry Holley:
That’s it. Well said.

Chris Goede:
Because there’s a lot of times that you and I have been in conversations. People, they’re in our presence, but they’re not present.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, not. You’re distracted or you’re.

Chris Goede:
And the greatest compliment somebody could give you is like, man, we started off earlier. We were talking about President Clinton. It’s like. It was like I was the only one in his mind of what’s going on in the entire free world because he was completely present. What does that look like? So attention’s the first One second. One is affirmation. Now, this is. I want to make sure everybody understands, man.

Chris Goede:
Please do this authentically, right? And speak to their strengths and what you see in them, not the outcomes. It’s like who they are versus what they do. Like, because remember, we’re talking about being. Having charisma and leading individuals and connecting with them. So I want to make that distinction right there that we talk about. You’re giving affirmation in their strengths, not necessarily the outcome. And the final A is appreciation. How do we celebrate our people in a way that celebrates the character of who they are? Like, there are things that they just innately do because of their character that you need to celebrate.

Chris Goede:
So again, we go back to the statement. It sounds easy, it’s easy to forget, but it’s so hard to do. But we have to be very intentional about doing this, especially to those that are not like you, because you don’t want to do it right. You’re like, yeah, I’m good. I’m out. You want to disconnect from people that are not similar to you. And so you got to be very, very intentional about making sure that you’re doing the same thing for those that you disconnect with that are on your team, that those you connect very easily with.

Perry Holley:
And I love this. The. The practicality of those three A’s, just making it something you think about on a regular basis. Am I making you feel seen? I’m giving you the right attention? Am I affirming you and what you’re doing in your work and the importance of your work? I’m affirming you as a person and as a. As a teammate. And then am I appreciating you and thanking you and making you feel valued for what you do and how you add to our team. Again, you’re making yourself. You’re becoming charismatic because people are drawn to you and because how important you make them feel to do that after being interested in people.

Perry Holley:
John says the second part was to become invested in people. And you start thinking, well, how do I invest in others? How do I invest in those on my team? Everybody probably has heard of the famous Zig Ziglar quote that you can add anything you want in life if you’ll help other people get what they want in life. And so it really comes down to that is, am I helping you get what you want? I’m invested in your success and becoming, John will say, becoming quick to help that. Are you. Do you have your antennae up? Are you looking around? Are you noticing where people are, what are they struggling with? You make others a priority. You look for where they need help and then you jump in and find a place to help them. What do you think investing in others, is that where your mind goes or something else?

Chris Goede:
Yeah, no, I like that. A couple things that I wrote down here is the quick to react for me is just being available. That’s not always easy for us to do because of our, all of our schedules personally, professionally. Right. Availability is tough. So that would be a key one. The other one I wrote down was consistency. It’s knowing that it’s consistently there, not that it was a front that I had to put on, that I did this once a week or whatever.

Chris Goede:
It’s like it’s a consistent behavior. The other thing about that I wrote down is how do I take opportunities that I have? John is the master at this. And open doors for other people to experience those experiences. And so how do I use the platform? Whatever your platform is, we all have a platform to open doors, to expose them to other things that maybe they would never have the chance to be exposed to if it weren’t for them being connected to you. How do you go about doing that? And if you compare all that together, man, I think that’s a recipe for great connection with your people.

Perry Holley:
I love that. And the third part, so once you become interested in others and invested in others, you want to become interesting to others. And this is talk about being the person that are you, the person that does everything with excellence and that how people become interested in people who just do things well. And if you hone your talent and absolute best of ability, you benefit others and that builds charisma. People are seeing you as they’re drawn to you, attracted to you because you, you’re excellent at what you do and you freely share. And I like this idea of becoming very interesting to others. What would make somebody interested in you? Well, you’re really good at what you do and you’re always willing to share and to help and include me in the things you’re doing now. You’re charismatic.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. So as I wrap up for us and again the new book, John just came out with the charismatic leader 21 skills to connect with people. And we have that here in studio. We’re holding up. We encourage you to grab that book. It’s a great little coffee table, quick read book. As I wrap up, really what we’re talking about is abundance versus scarcity. When leading and connecting to people.

Chris Goede:
Many thoughts come to mind. As I say that even in the five levels of leadership. The reason why there’s a lid, I think, at most organizations around the world, is that there’s a lid right above level three. And people don’t understand the power and the multiplication of what could happen if they truly understand how to develop people. And businesses and organizations can only grow the capacity of where their leaders are. And the ability to be able to do some of the things we’re talking about right here, I think lifts the ability to do that. But you got to have an abundance mindset to be able to do that because it takes time. You got to teach them what you know, teach them what you know.

Chris Goede:
You got to be okay with that. You got to see the potential in them. You gotta empower them to do things. But when you do that, it builds a culture of where your people are going to thrive. They’re going to be connected versus the other side of it, right. Is if we do the scarcity side things, you guys know what that’s like, how many of you have worked with or connected with a leader that had the scarcity mindset? Like, how much charisma was in that conversation? Right? None. Right. It’s like, yeah, I mean, it’s just all about them.

Chris Goede:
It’s, it’s your favorite, you know, saying W, I, I, fm, Right. And it’s like we close the doors. There’s no connection to them. So anyways, I just want to encourage you again, a simple topic. It’s easy, but it’s not easy to do and it’s probably easy to forget. And I think the longer we probably led, the more unaware we’ve come. We don’t do this stuff and we take people for granted, I think, but especially those closest to us when. If those that are closest to us are inner circle, we should really be going after this.

Chris Goede:
So hopefully this just was a little nugget in there for you guys today. Listening or watching. And it’s going to make a difference in how you’re going to lead this week, either in your personal life or your professional life.

Perry Holley:
And I always think, would you team be. Would your team be more engaged or less engaged if you were more charismatic? Would your team be more bought in or less bought in if you were more charismatic?

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
And even though it’s a weird word and we don’t use it that much, it kind of brings up an image in our mind. You can be more charismatic, attractive to people so that they want to go to work with you, they don’t have to work for you. They want to work with you. And that’s the beautiful part of that. So if you want to know more about this topic to get the Learner Guide to learn more about the five levels or the 360 leader, our other podcast, you can do all that at MaxwellLeadership.com/ExecutivePodcast. You can also leave us a comment or a question. We love hearing from you. Very grateful you spend this time with us.

Perry Holley:
That’s all today from the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast.

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