How to Build a Business That Outlives You

Perry Holley:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast, where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holley, a Maxwell Leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:
And I’m Chris Goede, Executive Vice President with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome, and thank you for joining. One of the things that we love to hear about, matter of fact, I was in the field the last 2 days with the state of Virginia, their Department of Corrections, and a gentleman came up to me and he said, you need to know that Perry—

Perry Holley:
Uh-oh.

Chris Goede:
Has changed my team’s dynamics of what we’re doing.

Perry Holley:
It’s usually when the Department of Corrections and my name is put together, they get nervous.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, it was really honoring. You and I love this. And I always say this just because we want you to use this as a resource. And so he came up to me and he said, I started several years ago listening to you guys, and it’s drastically changed my leadership.

Perry Holley:
How nice. That’s great.

Chris Goede:
And so here’s my encouragement to you. This is why we do this. This is a resource, and we would love for you to not only take it, you’re in the car, you’re learning, but also to share it with your team and talk about it. The learner’s guide that Perry creates off the content is available at MaxwellLeadership.com/ExecutivePodcast. And there, if you need some help with your team or some coaching, or if you have a question, we would love for you to leave that as well. This is a special episode for us.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, I think so too.

Chris Goede:
And I just found out about this on Monday. We were with John Maxwell and the other individual that we’re going to talk about. And you mentioned that this is one of the things we’re going to talk about. I thought, man, what a great idea. And so today’s topic is how to build a business that outlives you. Now, for some of us leaders and our pride and our ego, what do you mean? It needs me, right? And you have a great question you always ask, right? Is the business going to be better off with you or without you?

Perry Holley:
Right.

Chris Goede:
And most of us want it to be with us. But if you really truly understand leadership and I think succession and impact, it would be better off without you. We had the privilege on Monday when we were together, This year is a very special year for us here at Maxwell Leadership, where John is celebrating 50 years in the leadership business. And on Monday, we got to be in Charlotte with dear friends of ours and clients of ours for a long time, Hendrick Automotive Group, where Mr. Hendrick, they call him Mr. H, celebrating 50 years to the day, which was really cool.

Perry Holley:
September 14th, 1976.

Chris Goede:
To the day of being in business when he started his first automotive dealership. And so you said, hey, let’s look at these 2 legends of leaders and what they’ve built and how are they at a place where the business is gonna outlive them.

Perry Holley:
Yes.

Chris Goede:
And that’s both of their desires. And as you mentioned, Mr. H started back in 1976. Now they have over 100+ dealerships across the United States. They have over about almost 12,000 employees. And so it was really cool for us to be in the room. And what I love about this is it’s one thing for us to start a business or a team. So the principles we’re going to talk about today, you may not own the business, you may not start the business, but they can apply for your team.

Chris Goede:
So I want you to take what we’re talking about and be able to apply that. But it’s one thing to start it, and then it’s another thing to entirely build one that’s still standing and succeeding. 5 decades later, 50 years.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, it’s hard.

Chris Goede:
So I love this.

Perry Holley:
No, it’s hard to fathom that, but it’s so cool that we get to be in the room on things like this, to watch these 2 legends, John and Mr. H, standing together, and just to watch their relationship and how they care and love on each other and really have a lot of respect for what each other have done and actually credit each other for what they’ve spoken into their own lives.

Chris Goede:
Authentically too, right?

Perry Holley:
Yeah, it’s very—

Chris Goede:
Authentically, yeah.

Perry Holley:
It’s very real. And so I started thinking about it and even listening in the room on Monday. It was funny that you talk about the growth over 50 years. Mr. Hendrick made a comment that the lunch we were eating was worth more than what he made the first year in his car dealership.

Chris Goede:
And the room got quiet for just a minute and then everybody started kind of laughing. But from what we’ve heard, it was true.

Perry Holley:
Yes. And that now to 50 years later being a multi-billion dollar industry and a leader in that space. And John as well, reaching across 60,000 people across 160 countries, the growth of that, and all that has to happen outside of them. So I’ll start with the question that the number one thing I took away is that they did what they did for other people and they put people first. But I hear a lot of people say that. I hear a lot of organizations say, our people are our greatest asset. Greatest asset, yeah. And all that.

Perry Holley:
Put your finger on the things. What do you— this— you’ve lived this for— what have we been in there, uh, 10 years with Patrick? And yeah, and you’ve been here for 25 plus. And, uh—

Chris Goede:
Did you just call me old?

Perry Holley:
Yeah, I finally got that on the table. Thank you.

Chris Goede:
You put it on me this time.

Perry Holley:
Yeah. What do you think when it comes to that? They made it really about other people.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. John has this phrase of, there’s one thing to be successful in what you do, and then there’s another thing to be Really driving significant impact. And that’s one of the things I think about with these 2 individuals is, sure, in the business world, you’ve got to run a healthy business. You got to have an EBITDA. You got to know what you’re doing. You have to drive for results because, by the way, both Mr. H and John, incredible leaders of people, they expect results.

Perry Holley:
Yes.

Chris Goede:
Right? And they’re both extremely competitive. But But for me, it was what I heard over and over and over again from videos to testimonials about Mr. H. Also, I know personally about John is that it’s not about what they get out of what they’re doing. It’s really about the people that are around them and the benefits that they’re receiving from the way that Mr. H and the way that John have led over time. And so it’s that whole success versus significance, right? The success is about— would be about Mr. H, would be about John, where they’re at a place where you look at their whole 50 years and you look at the amount of people, the significant impact that they’ve had on other people.

Chris Goede:
I think that just stood out to me because the amount of people— think about some of the videos that we saw.

Perry Holley:
Yes.

Chris Goede:
And even John celebrating 50 years. A couple weeks ago, we were at an event for that. And the amount of people that have been impacted in sharing stories, you’re just like, and they don’t talk about it and you don’t know it because it’s about them. It’s about the individual, the vendors, the clients, the teammates, not about the individual.

Perry Holley:
Somebody made a comment in the room Monday that Mr. H should write a book. This is him talking. He said, everybody tells me I should write a book. And he goes, I looked into that, but you know what? I don’t want to write a book. But What the book’s about, it’s about me, and this is not about me. And then you hear the testimonies about people that even he and his wife, Linda Hendrick, was saying that we never made a decision based on what was good for us. We made a decision based on what’s good for the people, the team to do that.

Perry Holley:
And now you see people that will run through a wall for them because they’ve been cared for over all that time. So I think it started with people.

Chris Goede:
It did. And you see them, Mr. H talks about this servant leadership and you see this lived out. From John’s perspective in the 21 Laws of Leadership, he talks about the law of a solid ground where character of the person makes trust possible. And as we know, trust is a currency to all leadership. And I think when you look at those 2 men and being in the same room together on Monday and watching them share stories and talk, you go, man, there’s a lot of people that trust them. And that just didn’t happen overnight. They had to build that, which leads me to they had the right motive.

Chris Goede:
Like, I wonder how many businesses and how many teams and how many leaders have maybe fallen wayside and it hasn’t succeeded to year 6 or year 16 or 36 because maybe the motive was wrong. And we talk a lot about there’s a difference between influence and manipulation. I know manipulation is a strong word, But that’s the negative side of influence. And that fine line between the two of them is the motive. Now hear me say this, you got to run a healthy business. You got to win. You got to produce. Like, they’re both competitive.

Chris Goede:
You got to do that. But I don’t think that is ever put on the table above their people. And so I think that’s why you see this for 50 years. Let’s talk about the culture. And what I love about this is Both of them would say, hey, the tangibleness, what it feels like to work here at Hendrick Automotive Group or to work here at Maxwell Leadership. How do you go about that as a leader? What’s some of your takeaways after experiencing this week together that you go, that makes sense. That’s how that shows up. Yeah.

Perry Holley:
The word making your culture tangible really hit me hard. I went and made a note on that right away. I go, I’m going to think about that. What did you do? And I’m thinking about something we talk about a lot in the 5 Levels of Influence around a common language of leadership.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
And so this common language of culture is that the Hendrick organization and the Maxwell organization are both, John and Rick made it very clear what their core values are. No debating what the values are, but they went the next step is they assigned behaviors and actions to those core values. So it’s easy, Mr. Hendrick, I know he talks about servant leadership. John Maxwell talks about high road leaders, servant leadership. Those are all great words, but it wouldn’t mean anything if you didn’t look at them first and see that they demonstrate that their behaviors are in lockstep alignment with—

Chris Goede:
Values.

Perry Holley:
the core values that they’ve espoused. And if they were saying servant leadership, but yet they were making deals based on what’s good for them personally and for their pocket, nobody would believe it. But they make it tangible because they walk in. I know John was reading some things he had written for Rick. And one of the things that caught me was that Mr. Hendrick is known for treating the guy that they call them porters that move the cars around the lot the same as the president of the dealership.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. When— let me ask you this question. So Mr. H, John, they walk into a room. There’s a difference when they leave the room, how the people felt in that room versus other leaders that have had businesses that didn’t make it 50 years, that how those people have felt. Do you feel a difference? Because you have the privilege, just like I do, to be around both gentlemen, when you walk and you meet them and they’re in the room. And then they leave, you feel differently than some other leaders. And we work with a lot of leaders around the world, lots of organizations, of how that makes you feel when they leave the room.

Perry Holley:
Yes. And I wish I knew who said this, but it was the saying about when you enter the room and say, look at me, I’m here. But when they enter the room, it’s, look at you, you’re here. And they make it feel like they see you. John walks up and greets me and asks me how I’m doing, and he checks in on me. And then Mr. H is the head of this amazing organization as well. treats us like we’re part of the family.

Chris Goede:
That’s exactly right.

Perry Holley:
I just feel like it.

Chris Goede:
That’s an interesting word, family, right? It can be interpreted many different ways, but they both use that over and over again. I was talking to, this morning, I was talking to Hendricks, executive vice president of their university.

Perry Holley:
See, he’s an important guy.

Chris Goede:
He’s an extremely important guy. And they ran the whole show.

Perry Holley:
How’d you get to that level?

Chris Goede:
Well, I called in a favor. I said, I’m talking to Perry this afternoon.

Perry Holley:
I need to call you. Oh, you threw my name out there?

Chris Goede:
And I asked him a question. I said, hey, Tell me in your own words, Perry and I are going to talk about this today. What does this look like? He thought for a minute and he quickly is like, it is about servant leadership, but the servant leadership for Mr. H starts with his team first, because he knows that how he leads and connects with his teams and the standards and expectations that are set there is then how the team leads and influences their customers, but also we talked about this, they’re vendors. And what he was saying to me was, it doesn’t matter if you’re— it is now from top to bottom. It doesn’t matter if you’re a team member or a vendor or whatever, you’re going to get treated the same.

Perry Holley:
Right.

Chris Goede:
And he’s like, how many of our partners, our vendors made a video talking about the impact that the Hendrick culture has had on them around how they do things and the servant leadership? And he said, so it’s across the board. And, and how they do that.

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Chris Goede:
I want to ask you one other thing I was thinking about. I heard somebody say there’s a difference between an environment and a culture. And I think that as we begin to dig deeper into these 2 and other organizations on future sessions, the environment is probably surface level people, but the culture is much deeper and you spend more time and you see the roots. Do you think some people have artificial culture and it’s really just an environment?

Perry Holley:
Oh, For sure, absolutely. In many of the businesses we work with, they have great words on the wall, great on the coffee mug, great, you know, but they don’t live it. And so, you know, Death Valley is an environment, but not a lot survives there. It’s in order to survive in any environment, you’ve got to build the kind of structure, culture that will sustain the outcomes that you want. And if this Hendrik and Maxwell, cultures have been built around long-term sustainment of a living environment that you want to be in. They built it on core values and behaviors that say that you are more important than me. And they took the light off of them, even though they’re both in the light. They don’t let the light stay on just them. They’re always pulling you into the light with them. It feels like to me.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, I love that. I think also you say a lot about how Really, you know it’s a culture versus an environment when the leader’s not there.

Perry Holley:
Well, yeah, the culture shows up in your absence. So you got to ask what’s happening in your absence. Let me change gears a bit because another one of the things I picked up listening to them both is they are both teachers. They both teach. They don’t tell. They tend to bring people in and they teach, obviously, John, in setting a worldwide a network of 60,000 coaches and all the other organizations, Equip and Exchange and all these things that John is doing. Mr. H has got foundations and all the general— it’s funny to be in that room because you have a lot of people that have been with him a long time.

Chris Goede:
A long time.

Perry Holley:
That’s another thing I didn’t think about that.

Chris Goede:
And family members.

Perry Holley:
Yeah.

Chris Goede:
Right? So mom and dads that work there go, hey, I want my son and daughter to work there.

Perry Holley:
They asked that in the room. Show of hands if you have a family member that works here. And all the hands that went up said, yes, you want your kids to work here to do that. I think you’ll find the same with Maxwell organization.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, 100%.

Perry Holley:
You know that for sure. But what is it about this teaching? And is it empowerment? Is it— are they— because they’re not going to be here and they cannot be in every room all the time, but yet their mission and their voice goes forward without them.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. This is what we talk about in the 5 Levels of Leadership, that level 4 and even transitioning into level 5 influence, which I would say both Both men, to most individuals in that room, are level 4, level 5 leaders. And what ends up happening is their focus becomes on developing the people, adding value to the people, walking slowly through the crowd.

Perry Holley:
Yeah.

Chris Goede:
Right. When either one of them— I walked in with John and we were all there early because it was a surprise. And both of them, the pace of which they came in the door till they got to the front of the room. Hi, my name’s John. What do you do here?

Perry Holley:
Yeah.

Chris Goede:
Hi, my name’s John. Same thing with Mr. H. And even down to the way that they took care of and served the food and the servers. John pulled some of the servers aside. He’s like, this has been amazing. Like, I just want to thank you. Right.

Chris Goede:
And they have that. There’s something about that where they just want to They want to learn, but they also want to then develop the people around them, and they want to do it authentically by connecting with people and walking slowly through the crowd. And so their goal is, hey, if I know the way and I’ve been there and I can show the way, I want you to learn that as well. And here’s what I learned, either through a negotiation or experience or a purchase or whatever it might be. I don’t want you to make the same mistake. It’s like standing on the shoulders of a giant is what makes me— that’s what it makes me think about when you ask that question.

Perry Holley:
Well, Mr. Hendrick, even at the end, he said, I know we’ve gone long, but if I haven’t shaken your hand before, I want to make sure I greet you. I want to see, because I know there’s a lot of people here. He wouldn’t let you leave the room unless he put his arm around your shoulder.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. And you could tell it was bothering him that he knew in that room of 250 people, he was not going to be able to personally thank every single one of them. Right. And that’s just their heart of adding value to people. And there’s this phrase that John talks about where we want to add value before we extract value with people, period, whatever that looks like. And so I think both of them have that approach. And I know this because— and you coach a lot of Mr. H’s leaders— there are leaders that would literally do anything for him.

Perry Holley:
Yeah.

Chris Goede:
And I would say vice versa, if they pick up the phone, and called Mr. H, there’s nothing that he wouldn’t figure out how to do to help them. And he cares about everybody on the team. So much so, when I was talking to the team member this morning, he’s like, you know what’s really cool? He’s like, I was on my way home one night this week and Mr. H called me and he just called me to tell me thank you and all the work that my team had done.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, that was a big event.

Chris Goede:
And I was like, how cool is that? Like, this guy has multiple organizations and people pulling over. He’s on his way home on Wednesday and called and said, I just want to thank you and your team for the work that they did. John does the same exact thing. So I think it’s pretty cool on how they handle that. All right. Well, I think when we talk about the real test of a culture, someone who’s building a culture, it’s really not just about the people that follow you because of your title. It’s really about the people that you have chosen or you have developed. and trained up to carry on the culture after they’re gone.

Chris Goede:
You call them culture champions, culture carriers, whatever you want to do. From your lens as a leader with your experience, what do you see that Mr. H or John over the last, well, your exposure, but the history of their 50 years has done different than other leaders?

Perry Holley:
Well, if I had to say the number one thing that we started with as we kicked this off was they made it all about other people. The second thing, is which people. And they’ve surrounded themselves with the right kind of people who are like-minded and like-directed. They want the same things and that they know without a doubt, both John and Mr. H have put this team of people around them. Mr. H, they were actually talking about the next 50 years.

Chris Goede:
Right.

Perry Holley:
And Linda actually said, well, I want to see this be a 100-year-old company. And that they have no doubt that it can be because of the culture will be carried on by these people that we put in place. And what we found in most of the work that we do is the biggest danger to your culture is bringing new people in or even acquiring new companies, mergers and acquisitions, new teams coming in and not having a clear way to communicate what is our culture.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
If it’s just words on a wall or a coffee mug, it doesn’t get communicated. But because this one is tangible, because they know that you can feel it, you know what it is, and they can describe it. That everybody that comes in is bought into it. And as people begin to— as generations go by, it doesn’t matter because the culture carriers are there. They’re going to carry this forward. I have no doubt that John Maxwell’s legacy— and John made this very clear in his comments— that legacy is not what you leave to people, it’s what you leave in people.

Chris Goede:
In people.

Perry Holley:
And both John and Mr. H have done a fantastic job of planting seeds deep in the people that they value most that are helping lead this next generation coming through.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. When you say that about identifying people and leaving in people, you think about succession as— people think about that as replacement. I think they both have put it in a place to where they don’t think about it as replacement. They think about it as multiplication is what you’re really saying. Who am I developing? Who am I invested in that can then go and develop others? Right. And so it becomes about multiplying their efforts, even down to, I think Mr. H told a story where someone came to him years and years ago that didn’t know how to put a deal together or didn’t know how to put a dealership deal together, but had an opportunity in front of him. And Mr.

Chris Goede:
H, and I love this, he just says, let’s partner. And he says that with everybody. Like, let’s partner. That’s a very handshake, natural way to develop people. And so they both do it in their own styles.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, I love that.

Chris Goede:
But think about how many people he has partnered with and then the results of what those people have then gone on and done because of what they have learned by partnering with Mr. H.

Perry Holley:
And giving ownership of part of the business too.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, that’s right.

Perry Holley:
John and Mr. H have given parts of the business so that you can have your own business inside his business. And so people are They’re partnering inside the Hendrick model and John with these 60,000 coaches are being certified to go take Maxwell intellectual property and make a business from it.

Chris Goede:
Make it from business.

Perry Holley:
That’s right. So they partner and they help people grow. Why don’t you wrap it up for us? We could go on all day about this one. Yeah, this is a great experience.

Chris Goede:
This one’s a little bit longer. I knew it when you talked about it and I looked at the notes this morning. I was like, we’re not going to hit our 18 to 20 minute mark. And so hopefully you’re listening on 2.5 speed and not your normal speed. 1.5. As I think about this, there’s a couple of thoughts that I wrote down for closing. Number one, they both, the individuals, built people, culture. You mentioned early on language and leaders that helped them build a business.

Chris Goede:
They didn’t necessarily just try to build a product.

Perry Holley:
Right.

Chris Goede:
And that’s a big difference between the two of them. Have they made some mistakes along the way? Sure. Have they done it differently and learned from it? Sure. But now you can see the body of work over 50 years. I think that stands out. The other thing I would say is John made a comment. One of my teammates mentioned this to me while he was up there. And he’s like, Rick, I just want you to know, it’s very obvious to me that you want more for your people than you do from your people.

Chris Goede:
Right, right, right.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, I love that.

Chris Goede:
That’s very convicting.

Perry Holley:
Yes, it is.

Chris Goede:
Do you leaders, do you want more for your team members and for your people than you want from them? Right. The other thing I wrote down is they kept talking about the next 50 years, and there’s so many people that were partners in there that it’s something that they all have and will inherit. Like, Mr. H has built something Same thing with all of our coaches and Maxwell Leadership, to where people are going to— they’re inheriting their own business. They’re inheriting whatever it is that has been built and brought up by Mr. H. And so from a founder’s standpoint, they both just didn’t build something that only they can operate. They’ve built some stuff that other people have ownership and can inherit.

Chris Goede:
that just kind of lifts their lid as well. And so you’re right, we could go on for a long time about this, but hopefully some of the principles that we just talked about, we shared, take them, make them very applicable to where you’re at in your leadership, whether you’re leading one person, whether your influence is in a volunteer group or you’re leading an organization, because there’s a lot of meat on that bone.

Perry Holley:
Yeah. I remember Mrs. Hendrick made a comment at the end. She said that We’ve won and we’ve lost. We’ve had setbacks and we’ve had challenges, but we’ve never been— we may have had some setbacks, but we’ve never been defeated because you can only be defeated if you quit and we will never quit. And so I thought, yeah, you just keep going. You get up from the mistakes and they have, as John has. And it’s just a great part of any business that’s going to last a long time is going to go through some hard stuff. And they have come out the other side. Well, thank you for indulging us on this, a little bit of a personal journey of Some really people we admire a lot and have a lot of respect for. So you can get more information on this. If you get the learner guide, it’ll have some more of the details in there, as well as you can learn about our other offerings, our other podcast offerings. You can do all that at MaxwellLeadership.com/ExecutivePodcast. You can also leave us a comment or a question there. We love hearing from you. Very grateful you’d spend this time with us today.

Perry Holley:
That’s all from the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast.

Transcript created by Castmagic.