Takeaways from Doris Kearns Goodwin

Mark Cole: Welcome to the John Maxwell leadership podcast, Mark Cole here. I’m excited today to bring you some relevant leadership principles and practices. Some things that I just know is going to help you. In fact, today, I’m really excited because in Boston, Massachusetts with me today where we’re recording is John Maxwell. John you’re joining me live, you’re always with us live somewhere, but today you’re live in what we’ll call this a studio. Welcome John 

John Maxwell: While we’re in our studio in Boston, we’re looking at the Harbor, my friend, this is a city of incredible history. As you know, and why we’re so excited about being on this podcast with all of you today is we have just spent two incredible days with Doris Kearns Goodwin and Mark, those days marked our lives. 

Mark Cole: For sure. 

John Maxwell: Not only ours, but we did a round table with her. We had probably about 30 people coming in, in one shift one day, the second day, another shift. They sat at her feet and not only listened to her teach and do leadership and presidential history, but they were able to interact and ask questions. Doris told me, at the end of the second day, it was one of the most rewarding experiences that she’s ever had. She said, “You’ve created a memory I’ll never forget.” We want that to happen for our podcast listeners today. We want to create a memory for you on leadership and history that will just mark your life and make you better, because that’s why I want you on the podcast, to add value to you, obviously. 

Mark Cole: Yeah. John, you and Doris, I finished this day, those two and a half days, to be honest with you, one of my favorite leadership experiences that I’ve had. At the end of that moment, it occurred to us, we need to share this with our podcast family. Today I want you to grab your pen, I want you to grab your paper because John is getting ready to give you some principles, some ideas, some takeaways from his time with Doris Kearns Goodwin. In fact, my commitment to you and John, you’re hearing this for the first time, but I know you’ll agree. My commitment to you, podcast family, is we are going to bring John Maxwell and Doris Kearns Goodwin to you sometime soon. Let you listen to two leaders dissect leadership from a historical, presidential standpoint, and it will impact you. 

Many of you may not know, but Doris Kearns Goodwin has written seven books. The one that I’m the most impacted by is her book, Team of Rivals, that talks about the impact of President Abraham Lincoln. For those of you in the United States, you know that was a critical time in our history. She’s also written a book Leadership in Turbulent Times. You will want to go check those books out because that is impacting. Now for today’s show notes, as John gets ready to teach us, today’s show notes, go to maxwellpodcast/goodwin and you’ll be able to download today’s show notes. John, thank you for this unique experience. This is not always what we get to do on the road is to talk to our podcast family. But thank you for making this happen. I can’t wait to hear some of your takeaways from Doris. 

John Maxwell: The problem with the takeaways from Doris Kearns Goodwin is that this podcast is about a half hour and it’s impossible to give everything we’d learned from her. But let’s talk about Doris for a second. She is on most of the live political shows, news programs. She is a commentator on presidential leadership and history, the best mind, the most reliable source in the world. She’s a great storyteller. She just has the ability to teach leadership from the lives of past presidents. Mark’s already talked to you about some of the books that she has written. She’s a Pulitzer prize winner. She is at the very, very top of her game, Mark. We’ve had a friendship for some time. I asked her if we could do a round table, and if I could bring a couple of different groups up maybe of 12 to 15 people to spend a day with her. We went to her home, her husband, these two people were very influential in the sixties. 

Let me go back and explain to you, best friend of Bobby Kennedy was her, was her husband Dick. This was before they were married. He was literally with the John F. Kennedy family the night they came back from Dallas after the assassination of JFK. Was with the family when they came back to the white house, spent those days closely together, literally was the person who got the eternal flame for Jackie Kennedy. Literally was just at the very heart of the Kennedy family and was with Bobby Kennedy the night that he was assassinated in Los Angeles when he was running to get the democratic nomination for President of United States. Then became the number one, chief, basically, writer for Lyndon Baines Johnson and all the great civil rights speeches that you have heard, basically her husband, Dick, who was not her husband at that time. 

In fact, they had not even met. What’s interesting is Doris Kearns Goodwin was a fellow in the Lyndon Johnson administration coming out of Harvard. Her and a select, maybe 15 other bright, brilliant, possible potential, not only students, but people, influencers in the world. She was with Lyndon Baines Johnson, and he was the chief writer, but they hadn’t really even met. They did meet, they got married, but she was kind of like the go-to person for Lyndon Baines Johnson as far as a confidant. He talked to her continually and wanted to bounce things off of her at even when he was no longer President, she would go out to his ranch and help him with his memoirs and all those things. Remember Mark, Mark was with me on these round tables, remember which he said that she was in the Washington Mall in 1963 when Martin Luther King gave his famous speech. 

Mark Cole: Yeah. Back to Richard Goodwin. She was in there, she was in the moment and she’s writing about all these presidents. She made them come alive. It was powerful. But two things back on Richard Goodwin, her husband Dick. Two things she brought out in the memorabilia and the things that she brought in her home, one was the letter from Jackie Kennedy that was just like, you really were such an important part. We got excerpts from his diary the night that JFK was shot, we got excerpts of him being in the room and how they were setting up the room and the way the family was reacting. 

John Maxwell: We were there. She showed us all. 

Mark Cole: She showed us all of them, but the second- 

John Maxwell: We were at her house. We were in her place. 

Mark Cole: … back to being in the mall where Doris was, she showed us the telegram from Martin Luther King to Lyndon Johnson saying that was the best speech on civil rights that will propel us for years to come. He, Lyndon Johnson, gave the telegram to Dick for writing the speech where Martin Luther King said that is the best speech ever. It was powerful. 

John Maxwell: You know, Mark, what happened is with the round table, what we’re trying to recreate here for the podcast today is we were in the middle of history, major history that of all the decades in the 1900s, the 1960s was the most important decade, most volatile, but it was also where the most change happened. We had the privilege of sitting with Doris and having her go through the process. Most of her time she spent from her book that you mentioned earlier, Mark, Leadership in Turbulent Times. The reason that she chose to talk to us about that is because we just are coming out of a very turbulent time with COVID-19 and the four presidents all lead during a crisis. Teddy Roosevelt led during the industrial revolution where there was an amazing amount of change happening to America, obviously Abraham Lincoln and the Civil War, FDR bringing America out of the Great Depression and also World War II and then LBJ and the whole civil rights issue. 

These four presidents really made a difference during a very, very difficult time. What was so beautiful is the things that she taught us. What I want to transfer over to you on the podcast today is just a few of the thoughts, a few other thoughts. Mark, you were with me, just jump in buddy. This is just you and me, our very best to share with our friends things that we learned. Again, you know me, when I received something that helped me, my first response is to help you. My first response is to let it flow through me to you, because if it had added value to me, I just assume it’ll add value to you. This is just very, very fresh. I think I’ll start with Lincoln and then we’ll just kind of do it like in chronological order, we’ll go to Teddy Roosevelt and FDR and then LBJ. 

What’s funny as these four, Teddy Roosevelt, Lincoln, FDR, and LBJ, she kept referred to him as my guys. It’s like I’ve adopted these people. I’ve researched their life so much. By the way, she gave us an incredible insight on writing that if you’ll hang with me to the end of the podcast, I am going to give you some stuff that she gave me as a writer that was like, oh my goodness. She took me to a whole other level. Just hang on. That’ll be a little bit later in the podcast, but on Lincoln, I want to share two things that, I mean, she shared a dozen things, but I want to share two things that she gave us that I want to pass on to you. In fact, she gave us a little bit of her personal life, but then she did an incredible lecture on 10 leadership lessons from the lives of Presidents. 

On Lincoln, the two things I want to share with you was number one is that Lincoln weighed, W-E-I-G-H-E-D. He weighed his words carefully. Remember, Mark, when she’s talking about the fact that when the soldiers would have a victory, they loves to come to the White House. It’s kind of like, “Oh my gosh, we just got a victory.” Abraham Lincoln would always come out on the porch and he’d wave to them and celebrate with them. Then they would always ask him to, “Give us a speech, give us a speech.” He was hesitant to give a speech. The reason we hesitate to give a speech is because he wanted to weigh his words carefully. He realized that his words mattered and he didn’t want to be caught up in the emotion and say things to them that he couldn’t fulfill in promises, or to say things to them that would give them perhaps hope that maybe wasn’t realistic yet. 

Really what I got from that, it really was the fact that in a time of social media, I would just say to all of us as leaders, our words count. The best way to make sure you don’t have to take words back is to weigh them carefully on the front end so you don’t have to take them back. I just thought to myself how important it is for us to understand that what we say and what we do is so important to the people. Then the second thing that Lincoln taught, if you want to jump in, maybe you have a third, fourth thing I have no idea, is to surround yourself with the best people in difficult times. That’s where the Team of Rivals comes around because his cabinet literally consisted of people that were rivals to him. 

They literally ran against him. They were on opposite sides. Again, think of today of how we look at opposite side as the enemy and how he took opposite sides and embraced him. The reason he embraced them, don’t miss this, don’t miss this on the podcast, do not miss this. The reason he embraced the diversity and he brought a team of rivals around him, he brought people around him that had different perspectives on slavery and the Civil War. The reason he brought people around him that were so diverse and different was the fact that he knew that the issue he was dealing with in the crisis he was in, the Civil War, was bigger than him. He knew and he valued the fact that he needed to hear everybody’s perspective. Now, when you hear everybody’s perspective, you still lead. 

You still make a decision, but he had just understood it’s better to make a decision with full knowledge than with just my passion and what I feel. On a Team of Rivals, I’m just going to read this to you because I brought my Team of Rivals book. I read this book back in 2008. I brought it to Doris. I wanted her to sign it for me, which she graciously did, but I wrote back on November the 9th in 2008, after I read A Team of Rivals, I wrote if you’ve ever had to handle staff that was diverse and difficult, if you’ve ever had to make difficult decisions, if you have ever had to lead during a crisis, if you’ve ever had to place yourself beneath the higher cause, if you’ve ever had to overcome obstacles, if you ever had to deal with difficult people, if you’ve ever had to communicate continually with others and if you’ve ever had to carry the mantle of leadership with dignity, and if you ever wanted to live well and die right, then read this book. 

Because that’s what I felt after I read A Team of Rivals. That’s how I felt when Doris talked to us about Abraham Lincoln. He was so big. He was so big that he was willing and wanting to hear opinions of others that did not agree with him. I’m telling you remember this, great leaders, they unite their friends and they divide their enemies. Sadly, in our culture today, we divide our friends. I mean, think of all the families are just divided. It’s a bunch of foolishness over political parties as if that’s the true answer. That’s another story at another time, but think how sad that is. We need big spirit, the big spirit of Abraham. 

Mark Cole: Let me say this before we lose it. John, when you read to her what you wrote back in 2008, about her book, it was almost like this moment that most writers, they want an endorsement before their book releases. She got an endorsement after her book had released. It was really a really cool moment to see her read that endorsement. But on the point you were making about leading in this difficult time that we’re in right now, one of the other things she said about Lincoln that was under the subtitle, her teaching, and you may talk about this later, but leaders find ways to control negative and unproductive emotions. It’s not that we don’t, sometimes leaders out there in podcast land, our podcast family, it’s not that we’re not on fire, that we don’t have the passion, that we don’t have the energy. It’s that we don’t allow those unproductive, negative emotions to be channeled correctly, to be positive and productive. 

She talked about Lincoln’s hot letters. He would find something from one of his team of rivals. He would find something that really fired him up and he would write the letter just in the minute of the emotion. Then he’d wad it up, throw it away and attempt to write about it again with a little less unproductive emotion. A lot of times he would have to walk up the second version and the third version, but eventually he got to a place to where without the unproductive emotion, he was able to handle the issue. That’s the difference. We don’t see that in political parties or political issues anymore. No, it’s unproductive emotion that’s driving a lot of our activity. 

John Maxwell: Yeah, you’re so right, Mark. The emotion overrides the issue all the time. We can’t sit down and quote reason together because it’s too emotionally driven. I thought that was such a great illustration you just used of Lincoln. Hey, by the way, I’ve had a few letters I had to wad up and throw in the fire too. I’ve been there. What he realized is emotion should never replace clarity and reason and rightness and fairness. 

Let’s go to Teddy Roosevelt for a moment. It was interesting. I didn’t know this about, I know a lot about him because I love presidential history and leadership, but when he was very, very young and he was in Congress, he was an attacker. He was so smart and so brilliant and he was a terrific debater that he could just beat up the other team. He just loved beating up the other team and you’re wrong and I’m right and here’s why. He began to be acclaimed as this incredible young Congressman. He just got the attention everybody. 

But when he was about 26 or 27, he realized he wasn’t effective. The very people he was beating up on when he would sit down and want to have some help and cooperation, and some collaboration on a bill he wanted to get passed, they wouldn’t collaborate with him because he was a divider instead of a connector. He changed. What I loved about this as here’s a leader who was effective as a leader dividing the people, but he knew that there was a limit to his effectiveness. Let me just say to all of us, again, on this podcast day, there is a horse you can ride in leadership that’ll take you a certain distance, but can I tell you something? That horse has its limitation, and you’ve got to be able to change horses. What Teddy Roosevelt realized that did he want to be known as the great debater? Or did he want to be known as the great leader. 

Let me tell you something. If you want to win on the debate team, you better put your leadership aside because when you’re on the debate team, guess what you got somebody on the other side and your desire is to beat them. Beating other people is never the game. The game is always what’s best for the people. You can’t beat them up and then deliver what’s best for them. Teddy Roosevelt realized that. Here’s what I love. I love this, Mark. If you remember, he got a little sick physically and he went out West, it was known as a kind of an affluent Easterner. Back then, Doris explained, there was a lot of division between the West, the pioneers, the visionaries, the we’re making it happen, we’re the ones that’s exploring America and the established Easterners who were having tea on the porch, weren’t going to get involved in all this new stuff. 

He went out west and became a cowboy and began to meet them and began to love those people. Until by the time he ran for President, he was loved by the east and west. He was loved by everybody because he went over on the other side. Let me just say this, the closer I get to people that I don’t understand, or the closer I get to people I don’t agree with the more I understand them. The more I agree with them and the more I care for them. Now watch this, Teddy Roosevelt said, “Here’s the problem we have in America. When people start looking at people as the other people>” okay. He said that when you start talking about those other people, he said, “We’re Americans.” Those other people, those other people. He said, “There’s a problem when you look at people as the other people.” 

I thought to myself, again, here was a man who started off as like, I’m a divider, and he became to be a major unifier. What would he do? He’d take those train rides just so he could see the people close and wave, he’d wave. Remember, Doris was with us from Keller Williams. Remember she was sharing with us in the round table. She lived in Joplin, Missouri. She said his train stopped at Joplin, Missouri, but it also stopped another town of about 12,000, not too far from them. She said to this day they still talk about Teddy Roosevelt. I thought again to myself, when you become a leader of the people instead of a leader of the party, all of a sudden you began to go to a higher level as far as who people should have leading them and what you should do. 

Mark Cole: It’s funny, John, because for years you have said walk slowly through the crowd. The best way to lead is by being assessable to the people. I love the story and even the visual that Doris created for us of President Roosevelt, standing, she said for hours, hours and hours he would stand, because back then when he would take these long train rides … In fact, she said of any president, he was the one that was out of the office and with the people more than any others. He’d take these long, and this wasn’t days of Air Force One, it was days of get on the steam train and go through. But people loved him so much and love the opportunity. They would lie in the train tracks literally for hours and he’d stand there and wave until there was nobody else to wave to. She told the story, you’ll remember this. He was waving at one point, he didn’t have great vision. He was waving at one point, he turned to his aid and said, “Well, that’s not a particularly friendly crowd.” He was waving to a bunch of cow. 

John Maxwell: I thought that was so funny. I just love that story and I thought, I think I’ve waved a few cows myself. I think I got to the wrong crowd there. Let’s go to FDR. She spoke about a couple of things of Franklin, one was his high emotional intelligence. In fact, she said that people said that Franklin probably wasn’t the most intelligent person as far as a president we’ve ever had, but he probably had the highest emotional intelligence of any of them. Of course, he did the fireside chats and he did the fireside chats because he knew how to connect with people because he had a high emotional intelligence and a high ability to connect and relate. What was very interesting to me because I’ve read her book on Eleanor and FDR. It’s a great book. 

What was so interesting to me is that she talked about the fact that he had real faith. That he just had the ability that they would get through the Depression. He had the ability that they would win the war and that his faith gave him a real sense of confidence. Those fireside chats was where the people, they would rush home in the evening, turn on the radio and sit and wait for their leader to give them confidence and security. I thought, I don’t know if there’s anything better for a leader to do than to be able to share security, peace, confidence, courage, all those positive attributes in the lives of their people. But that’s what Franklin Delano Roosevelt did. I thought, “That’s a terrific responsibility of every one of us as leaders to do that.” 

Mark Cole: I was thinking of what your friend, Andy Stanley, our friend, he said at the beginning of COVID. He said that people want your presence more than they want your plan. 

John Maxwell: Yes, that was so right. 

Mark Cole: FDR, when he would get on his radio programs, he was just giving his presence. Remember when she told us that story of the guy was leaving for work. He said, “I got to get home. I got a meeting with my president.” He would go and sit around the radio, wait. There was just this presence that was there. One of the things on FDR, that was just interesting to me, of course, the whole Winston Churchill and all that connection. I could hear those stories for a long time. But how he overcame adversity. For a long time, adversity kept him really separate from the people. Then when he overcame that, that really is when he began to be that connected with people, when he didn’t let his afflictions and all of his limitations hold him back. It made me really think, John, your message of being comfortable in your own skin. Podcast listeners, you that are leading, this is a time to where we need you leading from a place of authenticity, but a place of certainty. You can do that with your presence. 

John Maxwell: We were just adding such a wonderful thoughts, Mark, to our talk with everybody on the podcast. LBJ, boy, the lesson that I learned from him, and again, I’ve read his life story also. But the thing that I have learned from what Doris shared was the fact that she said, the thing that stood out to her about him was that he had a great desire to keep learning and growing. She said he taught his interns. He taught her, mentored her. Put yourself in a place to learn, always get around good people, go to great places, go to great events. I loved the story that when he went to college, he was a janitor. That he said, “Well, if I’m going to be the janitor and I’m going to be the best janitor, and I’m going to pick up more trash than anybody else. 

Literally he took a record of how much trash he picked up. He was the best trash collector of all the janitors. Of course, with that kind of work ethic, it got him promotions in the janitorial world. His desire was to mop the floor of the president, where right outside the president’s office, he wanted them off the floor. Well, why did he want to do that? Because he wanted to meet the president. He met the president and they started engaging in conversations and he started running errands for the president. He said, well, I can do this. He put aside his mop, he’d run errands for the president. Before long, he had a desk inside of the president’s office. Then before long, he was the chief of staff of the president. I thought to myself, here’s a perfect example of a person who didn’t go to a different level. He grew to a different level and his passion to learn and grow and to earn his promotions and to earn his place in the life of that president. This story is just a beautiful example for all of us to whatever you’re doing, quit wanting the next job. Just do the very best in the job that you have. Guess what? You’ll get that next job, but you don’t go to it. You grow to it. It was just absolutely, I thought, very significant. 

Mark Cole: Yeah, for sure. I want to hear the next thing. I won’t comment to stay here for long, but watching leaders that grow into something rather than force, or try to assert themselves into something, it’s a much natural progression. It’s a much more natural progression of leadership when the people know you need to lead before you do. 

John Maxwell: Oh my goodness. That’s the best. That’s kind of goes back to that level two of the Five Levels of Leadership, that relationship where they want you to lead them. What will happen is the people will put you up in that position after a while. She gave some of the really best writing advice. I’m not going to spend a lot of time now with you on that because not all of you are writers, but for those of you that are, I’m just going going to tell you what I learned from her. I learned, first of all, that writing is a muscle and it needs exercise. You hear me talk about the fact everyday I write, it’s like going to the gym, it’s a muscle. The more that you work that writing muscle, the better and stronger you become. Number two, love your subject. 

Again, what did she do? She loved the guy she wrote about, she called him my guy. She loved him so much she called them my guys. It wasn’t like she was on the outside looking in, which brings me to another incredible point that she gave me. She said, you write their lives from the inside, not from the outside. She said, she did that by reading their letters and by reading their diaries. She said that’s the true, authentic person. She talked about outlining her books in the beginning so that she had kind of a roadmap. She talked about having an angle. What she wrote about Abraham Lincoln, 16,000 books, she said, had been written about Abraham Lincoln. Can you imagine 16,000? I mean, do we need 16,001? No, unless you write from a different angle. The Team of Rivals was all about writing Abraham Lincoln’s life from four other members of cabinet’s perspective and their life. 

She wrote from their perspective, which gave it a whole new angle on Lincoln. Then she said stay in the story. Don’t get ahead of it. Don’t get ahead of it. Remember she talked about what her dad would come home. He loved baseball. She would listen to the Brooklyn Dodgers baseball games. She did kind of keep the score and everything, all the stats. When her dad would come home, she’d say, “Dad, the Dodgers won” or “Oh, Dad.” They were fans with Dodge. “They lost today.” She said, all of a sudden she realized that there was no interest in the story if she gave the end first. She said, I learned with my dad to take it inning by inning and stay in the story. Don’t get ahead of it. 

She said, “That’s where I write my books too. I don’t get ahead of my story. I let the reader live in the moment.” I just thought those are incredible. Let’s put this way. I wrote them down. I’m going to apply to my writing. I think we’re out of time Mark. 

Mark Cole: We got about three more minutes. We’re good. 

John Maxwell: Okay. Okay. We’re going to have to maybe visit this at another time. 

Mark Cole: Okay. 

John Maxwell: Remember when we talked about diversity and can you lead effectively with diversity? On that first round table, that first day, we came to a conclusion that we didn’t get to stay there because of time. But I thought was very insightful and I’m going to go back to it and work it myself. That is that you can lead diverse people, different backgrounds, but the thing that must be the same when you’re leading a major widespread diversity that I picked up from her was the two things that you had to have to lead effectively is the same values and the same purpose. I came out of that. I thought, oh my gosh, how many times did we try lead people that don’t have our values? It’s just very frustrated. I mean, they constantly violate who we are and what we believe and how many times we tried to lead somebody and their purpose wasn’t the same as our purpose. She talked about, again, Lincoln, everybody wanted to get the Civil War settled correctly. They were very diverse. They had different ways to get it done, but these are our values, this is our purpose. 

Then she said something on legacy of Teddy Roosevelt. He said, “I want to know that when I’m ready to die, I’m still working on something that matters.” Boy, I want to taste something that grabbed me real big time. That took me on a beautiful confirmation of how I want to live my life. He said, “Let me just explain something to you. I want to have legacy. I want to have people carrying on, but here’s what I really want to make sure I’d do and when I’m dying, I’m still doing something that really matters.” I think that is huge because I think so many times we’re wanting to make sure they follow through on everything we’re doing. We stopped doing it to make sure they’re following through and we lose all of our credibility and we lose all of our moral authority because we’re not doing it ourselves. 

Then the last thing, I’m sorry, Mark. I know, I know. I got a quick- 

Mark Cole: No, you’re good. 

John Maxwell: This is on transformational leadership on the second election. Remember when Abraham Lincoln, wasn’t sure he’d win the election because it wasn’t popular what he had done. He wanted to insist on the Emancipation Proclamation. He also wanted to insist on the fact that the war end correctly, that they didn’t take a shortcut and get a quick piece and not really settle the issues and get the right laws into place out. General McClellan, who was a terrible general, as everybody knows in the North, was his opponent. McClellan just basically it was not a disciplinarian. He basically let the soldiers do what they want to do. Therefore, the soldiers kind of loved him a lot. Abraham Lincoln thought, “Man, I may lose this election because McClellan kind of gave the soldiers what they wanted. I kind of just gave them what they needed.” 

Yet when they voted 80% of the soldiers voted for Abraham Lincoln. When she said that, I said, “That is the reward of a transformational leader right there.” A transformational leader plays the long game. In fact, remember there was a soldier that couldn’t get back to vote. He wanted to vote and he made it clear he wanted to go vote for McClellan and Abraham Lincoln assured him, “I will get you back to your home place so that you can make your vote.” Even though he knew he was helping somebody go vote against him. I thought to me, Abraham Lincoln was a transformational leader. Those soldiers, they knew. They knew that even though it was a longer road and it was a more difficult road with Abraham Lincoln, they knew it was the right road. That’s what transformational leaders do. Transformational leaders don’t allow the people to take shortcuts. They just say, “No, no, no. What we’re in is bigger than us. It’s going to take us longer. This is where we’re going to go.” That attracted those soldiers to it. I close with that. Okay. I went probably six minutes, but I couldn’t help herself. 

Mark Cole: Well, you didn’t. You actually hit it three minutes. You always amaze me when I give you a time and you hit it. Let me say this, John. For you to take time today and just walk into the podcast listeners heart and minds, we didn’t all get to experience this with you. We didn’t all get to be in the room with Doris, but today just like Doris brought us into the lives of past presidents that she’d never met. She brought them to life. You’ve brought this experience to life for the podcast listeners. On behalf of everybody that’s riveted to their audio output, whatever that is. Thank you for bringing us into the room with one of your experiences, because- 

John Maxwell: That’s what we do. 

Mark Cole: That was huge. You know, podcast listeners, I’m going to indulge John. In fact, I’m going to put John on the spot because this week, while we’re in Boston, Doris Kearns Goodwin was on television talking about the first 100 days in the president’s lives. That’s because our President in the United States, President Biden has just experienced 100 days and shared what his thoughts were on that. John, we’re 100 days into Change Your World, the book release. Would you do a 100 days of impact through Change Your World in next week’s podcast? 

John Maxwell: Oh my gosh. I would be delighted to do that. [crosstalk 00:35:06] I’ll do my best. 

Mark Cole: Here we go. Next week, be back on the podcast. Do me a favor, John and our team work hard to add value through this podcast. Here’s a way to give back, pay it forward. Get somebody to subscribe, get somebody to join you in the podcast. Take the show notes and go pour it into your team. We want this podcast to add value to you so much that you will use it to multiply value to others. Download it, subscribe, pass the link forward and get other people to subscribe so that together we can multiply value to others. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks for being a part. I know that you’ve joined me in thanking John. In fact, put a post, make a comment wherever you listen to this podcast, wherever you download, give us a post. Let us tell John how much we appreciate it. We will see you next week. Until then let’s listen, let’s learn, let’s lead.