Characteristics of a Builder

Mark Cole:
Hey, welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. This is the podcast that we’ve committed to add value to leaders because we know they’ll multiply value to others. I’m Mark Cole and this episode is all about the characteristics of a builder. It was Steve Harvey that said, a person has to remember that the road to success is always under construction. That’s why John Maxwell is rightly gifted to talk about building and to talk about construction and to talk about taking people somewhere. John’s going to answer this question today. What does a builder look like? This way you will know how to recognize them on your team and you can actually take these principles, these ideas that John shares today and you can grow yourself as well. After he shares this lesson, my co host, Chris Goede, and I will offer you practical ways you can apply this lesson both to your life and to your leadership.

Mark Cole:
I’d like to invite you to download the free bonus resource and also to tune into our episode by YouTube. You can do all this by going to maxwellpodcast.com/builder. Here we go. Here is the builder himself, John Maxwell.

John Maxwell:
The characteristics of a builder and great companies. One of the things you can always know about them is that all great companies have builders. Now, not everybody is going to be a builder, but I want you to become a builder in some way or another, at some level or degree. So let me just quickly share with you the characteristics of what a builder looks like for two reasons. One is it’ll help you to identify builders on your team, because once you can identify them, they’re the ones that will produce and bring great results and success for you. And number two, if I give you these characteristics of a builder, honestly, you may say, well, I think there are a couple that I have that I can kind of make bigger and maybe it’ll help me to even build better than I ever had before. So what does a builder look like? Well, the first thing, and I think it’s the first because it’s the most obvious, builders love results. You know, builders love to make things happen.

John Maxwell:
And so therefore, anything that’s growing, anything that’s showing progress, builders just love. So they love to talk about. In fact, sometimes they maybe are kind of braggadocious, but they love to talk about, you know, where the team was when they got hold of the team and where the team is now. And here’s what we’re producing and this is what we’re doing and this is what we’re enabling people to do. Builders love, they love numbers, they love results, they count. It matters to them. And so if you’re just looking at where you are and you’re constantly trying to have better numbers and bigger numbers, and this is something that you find yourself attracted to, it’s probably because you have a characteristic, at least this characteristic. Characteristic of what a builder really looks like.

John Maxwell:
Another characteristic of a builder is, honestly, they’re seldom satisfied, even when they succeed. It’s kind of like I was having a conversation one day with Mark Cole, who we were traveling international. He said, john, I watch you just build something and. And it becomes successful, and we all celebrate. And the next day, you’re no longer celebrating. You’re already thinking about the next thing you want to accomplish. And we had an interesting dinner conversation that night about, because that’s who I am, I’m seldom satisfied. Now, it doesn’t mean I’m not fulfilled, but what that does mean is that for many years, I had a sign in my office that just simply said, yesterday ended last night.

John Maxwell:
And I love that sign. And I tell people all the time, if you have a big victory, you got 24 hours. Celebrate and then get over it, move on. And by the way, if you had a big loss, take 24, you know, 24 hours to moan and groan about it and then move on. In other words, you got to get over it. You got to get over your success. You got to get over your failure. And the way you do that is to always, you know, never, never be satisfied with yesterday.

John Maxwell:
It ended last night. And the person that I’m probably the most hard on is myself. But I have found that builders themselves, they just really. Here’s what I think. I think you’re better to be hard on yourself and a little kinder to others. I know some people that are kind of kind to themselves and harder with others, but builders just. They’re always looking for that. Next thing, I was talking to a fellow last night at dinner, and he said, john, I was attracted to your organization when you developed what you call the million leader mandate.

John Maxwell:
And what I did is I challenged my nonprofit organization to train a million leaders in the world. And it caught on fire. It was contagious. And for the next six years, hundreds and hundreds of people volunteered to make that happen. And when we got to a million, I never said anything. And we got to 2 million. And finally one day somebody came and said, boy, you know, you. It’s not the million leader mandate now it’s 2 million.

John Maxwell:
You know, aren’t you done? I said, oh, no, no, I’m not. I said, we’ve left the million leader mandate. Now, now we’re going to, we’re going to train leaders in every country of the world. Now what was I doing? I was already making it bigger and say, well, you know, okay, we did a million, but we haven’t trained every leader in every nation yet. So let’s go. That, that’s what I’m talking. That’s who a builder is. That’s what a builder feels like.

John Maxwell:
They’re never really quite, you know, satisfied. Thirdly is they’re very comfortable with uncertainty because they’re always on the edge. They’re always going where they haven’t gone before. And because of that, they don’t always have the answers. And because of that, sometimes they have misses but it’s okay because they’re very comfortable with themselves. They’re not really certain about the entire future, but they’re certain about what they’re doing today. And so, you know, there’s a comfortableness in uncertainty that just builders have where most people want to stop and kind of say, I’m not going to do anything until I can get this figured out. You know, builders are just out there saying, oh, I’m going to do a lot of things and I’ll figure it out that way.

John Maxwell:
My father was an incredible builder, and so, you know, he was in his, I don’t know, early 80s probably, and my sister was down visiting him. And he said, my car needs the oil change. So they went to the oil change place to get it. And that day there was a long line and for whatever reason, something happened. And they had been waiting over an hour for this supposed to be quick, speedy oil change. And my dad finally looked at my sister. He said, I can’t handle this anymore. He said, let’s just go buy another car.

John Maxwell:
Let’s buy a car. I can buy a car faster than I can get my oil changed here. There’s just an edge and then patience about builders that they just, they’re going to move and if everybody else isn’t moving, that’s okay, you know, they’re going to move. You know. You know, builders, they become contagious. They become contagious in the fact that, you know, a real builder could almost. They could sell their vision to a raccoon. Honestly, they can.

John Maxwell:
They, you know, what they do so well is they get people to believe in them. And here’s the way this works. It’s the law of buy it. When people believe in the leader, they begin to believe in the vision. And builders have a confidence, a contagiousness about them, that people are attracted to them, and they just bring people to them again. They’re kind of like a builder’s magnet. And then one other thing that the builders just do really well, and that is that they’re producers. Wherever they are, wherever they go, they produce results.

John Maxwell:
And if there’s not enough time, they’ll find more time. If there’s not enough money, they’ll find more money. If there’s not enough people, they’ll go find more people. In other words, builders never accept no for an answer. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine that’s an incredible builder, and I was casting a vision with him. Well, really, honestly, I was casting a vision of about 5,000 leaders. And when I finished, I went to the green room and Larry came into the green room and he looked at me, gave me a big hug, and he said, the answer is yes. And I said, what do you mean the answer is yes? He said, the answer is yes.

John Maxwell:
I’m on the team. I’m in. And then he looked at me, said, I live on the other side of yes. I’m always ready. I’m always ready to help add value, to. To build, to make a difference. Now, I gave you those characteristics of a builder because those are the kind of people that you want. And if you’ll start teaching those qualities and characteristics, you’ll have people that will begin to lean towards being a better builder in your life.

John Maxwell:
And when you build up builders, then everything, everything begins to compound.

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Mark Cole:
Hey, welcome back, everyone. I’m really excited to be here with Chris today. We’re building a company and working together. We’ve been working with John the Builder for a long time. It’s not Bob the Builder. For all of you that have grandkids like me, it’s not Bob the builder. It’s John the builder. But John says this, he says, never be satisfied with yesterday.

Mark Cole:
It ended last night. And I think that if you think about anybody that’s building there, they’re not proud of yesterday’s construction. They’re always passionate about what can I do today? And boy, it is going to really be fun getting into this.

Chris Goede:
I love the, the start out saying John, I mean, is the ultimate builder. And I think outside of this organization, if I hadn’t had that experience, if you ask me, what’s a builder, I don’t know that I would probably have the right mindset of it. And I can remember a long time ago, you and I doing events back in the day where we’d show up at a church, right? Operationally we’d have a success and John would, man, thanks, team. Go have a good dinner. Put your seatbelts on. Where we going tomorrow?

Mark Cole:
Right?

Chris Goede:
We’re like, what do you mean? This just took hours to pull together and numbers of calls and all kind of stuff. And so you had that front seat and you and I were talking just a minute ago and I’ve seen your growth through the process of becoming more and more, not because of the responsibility of knowing that you need to be the builder for Maxwell leadership, but more of just it’s the desire and it’s the hunger to shift your leadership into being that builder. And now we often say Mark swoops in, has a bunch of ideas and swoops back out, right? And then go figure it out. But you’re out there and you’re having conversations and you’re with John and other leaders. And I wrote this statement down when I was thinking about this this morning. We were going to talk about this. You lead now in a way where that is a strong desire of yours. Like, you know that that is you’re the CEO, the owner.

Chris Goede:
I got to be the ultimate builder. And it becomes contagious. Now, it won’t become so contagious that everybody adapts the same type of passion, the same type of building mentality that you have. But what ends up happening as you leave the room is the team begins to lean in. Not maybe while you’re there, because some of them go, whoa, but while some go, yeah, let’s go. So I wrote down this, I wrote lead. It becomes contagious. And then they’re going to lead in.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, lean in, right? And I think that’s what you’re, I think that’s what you’re doing. That’s what you’re at So I want to unpack a little bit right now with you. And I picked a couple of them that just stood out to me that I know I’ve seen you accelerate in regard to builder. And so let’s start with the first one and let’s talk about results. Yeah. Years ago, I learned a very valuable lesson under your leadership. And this was back probably before you really even started thinking about, hey, how do I become the builder that we need? We were in a meeting and not everybody had the answers that you wanted. And they were all about numbers and they were all about the data.

Chris Goede:
And they were like, hey, if we’re going to make things happen and we’re going to make things count, we’re going to have people grow, we better know the results when we come into this meeting. That’s our job, that’s our responsibility. And so now there’s not oftentimes I don’t go into a situation where I don’t know the results, whatever that might be. It doesn’t have to be a dollar figure. It could be all kinds of whatever your KPIs are. But just know your business. Right. Know and understand that because you love those results.

Chris Goede:
Talk a little bit about the passion as a leader, as a, as a CEO of an organization taking us to the next level. Why as a builder, is that so important for you to know your results but also those that are around you?

Mark Cole:
Yeah. You know, in business, really, in anything, the thing that you want to establish is what is the thing I can most rely on, what’s the data points, what’s the numbers that I can most rely on? So in relationships, as a guy that is passionate about my own personal finances or now owning businesses and running businesses, and certainly when I was a telesales representative and my commissions were based on what the numbers were, I wanted to know because here’s what you’ve heard said a lot in life. Numbers don’t lie. And so if you want a baseline of where you are and you are passionate about results and productivity specific results that are positive, then you’ve got to know what your numbers are. I watch all these people. We’re at the beginning of the year here, we’re January. And I watch all these people that want all these aspirations to accomplish in a given year, but they don’t start with the baseline. They don’t start with numbers with something that you can build on.

Mark Cole:
The more I try to and ascribe to become a builder, the more I realize that knowing your results all day long, every day, is the Best way to determine if you are getting progress in the direction that you want. So you’ve seen me over the last little while, you’ve seen me get really specific in what are your numbers? Give me numbers. We’re working on a project right now, and I said, I want numbers every night. I just want to know that we’ve had progress. I think you were very clear, kind to me. And by the way, you were very kind to me in two things. You were very kind to me in saying that these days, I swoop in, drop a lot of ideas, and then swoop back out. The way I’ve heard that described many times is leaders swoop in, dump all over everybody, and then fly out.

Chris Goede:
I wasn’t sure exactly what I could say on the podcast, so I decided to change the narrative.

Mark Cole:
So you did it right. I do appreciate that you politically correct adjusted that. I do appreciate that. But the second that it was lost on me, though, the second thing that I appreciate you is, man, I feel like a fledgling builder. I feel at this stage in my life that I’m really learning more about what I don’t do that is needed for a builder than what I am doing successfully. I just recently had a conversation with John. It was hours, long conversation. We don’t.

Mark Cole:
We don’t stay on one subject very long. As you can imagine, we got a lot of subjects to cover in leadership. We still have the subject for four hours one day, jumped on a plane to California and tackled it another three hours, and it was all centered around me, Mark Cole, becoming a better builder. Do I have the attitude? Do I have the appetite? Do I have the killer instinct? Do I have the guts, the institution, the constitution to say no to things that are good so that I can get this thing done? Do I have the foresight of being able to prioritize and adjust myself and my responsibilities? And I found in that conversation, I’ll be honest with you, I’ve got a lot to grow and a lot to learn. Thank you for, as a teammate working alongside me. Thank you for saying, mark, I can see you being more intentional in being a builder, because I can tell you I am being intentional in that. My life, my leadership, my passion for our future requires me to add being a builder to my repertoire. And I can tell you this, as a CEO of somebody else’s company, it was not as important for me to have the awareness, the appreciation, and the acceleration of builder tendencies in the organization.

Mark Cole:
Now, as the owner, I’m really understanding the need for all of that, the appreciation, the Anticipation, the acceleration of builder activity.

Chris Goede:
You know, I was thinking about a very simple illustration. You know, if you have a niece or a nephew you haven’t seen in a while, maybe another family member and you, a couple years go by and you show up nowadays, some of these teenagers, it could be six months and you go, man, like you grew six inches, you grew a foot. Like, is that, is that Mark Cole right there? And so you can’t necessarily see that and feel that to your point, you don’t necessarily feel that. But as you swoop in, right, and as you got ideas and you’re the owner, I see a lot of very, a lot of curiosity as you’re exploring other opportunities, which I think is, is a, is a mindset of, of a builder. I see a lot of things going, well, if we were to do it all over again, how would we do it? And where’s the baseline of those numbers? Back to, back to these results. And I can also remember years ago where, and even, even today, it’s true today, now you want more than just plus one because we want, we want that builder mentality to be stronger than that. But back when times are really tough and you’re struggling, hey, give me plus one this week versus last week, okay? Throw the budgets out. We’re going to go +1.

Chris Goede:
What we did last Q1 over this, like whatever it takes. What do we get to plus one. And so that’s that driving that. And then it becomes contagious with the team and the team starts to lean in from, from that.

Mark Cole:
And let me be relevant, I believe relevant to all the people out there that would consider themselves a builder and those that don’t consider themselves a builder. Okay. Because with each of these things that John teaches us today, builders love results. There is a paradox to being a builder. There is a paradox that, to be honest with you, as a recovering people pleaser, that I have to overcome that paradox to be an effective builder. Because I can give all these people pleasing tendencies that I was born with as a reason not to be too overbearing with that. For instance, on this first one, builders love results. Builders love to make things happen.

Mark Cole:
That’s in your notes. For those of you that have downloaded the bonus resource. Let me tell you, there is a difference in a builder and a non builder. I believe everybody knows how to get things done. But a builder makes things happen. They don’t always get things done. How many builders do you know that start something, they just don’t finish it. Yeah, they are on to the next thing.

Mark Cole:
A lot of them, it’s their tendency. We don’t say a build. You know what I love about builders? They finish things. No, they start.

Chris Goede:
They were here for the long haul.

Mark Cole:
They make rain. They don’t collect rain. They make it happen. They don’t necessarily get it done. And I think as a builder and an aspiring builder, like I am, podcast family, I think you’ve got to understand the difference between getting things done and making things happen. And what I’m learning right now is I got to make things happen and I got to leave it, dump it, as we just talked about, on other people, to get it done. I’ve got to go make something else happen. And I’ve watched John for years and years and years, 25 years, to be exact.

Mark Cole:
I’ve watched John 25 years, know how to make things happen and let others figure out how to get it done. And a builder does not encumber herself himself with get it done. They encumber themselves with make it happen.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. And because if they do, it takes up the space of which they’re thinking, too. What I got to do in order to make that happen.

Mark Cole:
Right.

Chris Goede:
And. And for you to watch real quick, and talking about the John thing and him being a builder for so many years, as you said, 25, you’re going through this leadership right now, you know, Panda his book, because now he was the one that would just make the. And you would get it done.

Mark Cole:
That’s right.

Chris Goede:
And now you’re having. No, no, no. I know for the legacy of what I’m carrying and the responsibility to change lives around the world because everyone deserves to be led. Well, I better figure out how to make things happen, and I better have a team that can come around me and get it done, whatever that looks like. And the other thing I’ll say about this, and we’re going to move on then to this comfortable word, which I know a lot of individuals and leaders out there get very uncomfortable with, is you got to stay relevant but yet adaptable. Right. Like, you’ve got to be able to move. And.

Chris Goede:
And I love the statement where it says the path to success is anything but a straight line. And John, you know, talks about that. He goes, I’m not sure how we’re going to get there, but, like, I know who we are. Right. And I know what I’m thinking about and why we do what we do. We’re gonna figure out how later. Whatever that looks like. That’s not important to your point.

Chris Goede:
In order to get results, you’re going to have to have people around you that be able to do that. All right, so let’s talk about this. Getting comfortable in uncertainty. I have seen you. We could probably talk about this one for an entire episode because I’ve seen you in uncertainty time and time and time again. And I think if there’s one thing that’s for certain is that we’re going to live in that uncertainty. But you’re never, in your leadership, not certain of what you’re doing today. Right.

Chris Goede:
Like you’re focused on long term. Okay. It’s going to be uncertain, but you know, there’s a step, you know, there is activity. You know, there is something you’re going to make happen today that ends up getting us to a place that long term vision of where John or yourself wants the organization to be. Talk to us a little bit about this, about you being comfortable being uncomfortable and being uncertain of what the outcome is going to look like, of how we get there.

Mark Cole:
Yeah. John says something the other day that really struck a chord of understanding in me. He said I would go down a path to realize it was a dead end, to have never went down that path, to know if there was opportunity on the back end of that street. And it struck me because often as leaders, we need predictability to start down a road. We can’t really start down something if we don’t know. And what John was telling me once again, in awakening the builder within me, awakening the responsibility for somebody in the organization to really put on their back the performance, the productivity, the, the, the things that need to stop because they’re not producing. And it’s been that kind of a conditioning for me because of this right here. I have been tasked with bringing predictability and structure to a builder’s life for the last 15 years, 14 years now.

Mark Cole:
I’m tasked to create the chaos and let somebody else work out the system of predictability. And so it brings back to the paradox of this point that John made, is builders are more comfortable with chaos than they are certainty. So if you look at my computer bag, all of my cables are well positioned and put together at the beginning, end and in the middle of every trip. So I could be on the anal kind of side a little bit. At the same time, a builder does not at all weight themselves with order and predictability. They weight themselves with chaos and opportunity. And when you are really going to pursue opportunity, you’ve got to be okay with the uncertainty. And again, I can tell you truly, John Maxwell is more happy at the dead end of a road that he went down and it was not successful than he is when he passes a road wondering what opportunities down there.

Mark Cole:
And often most of us get to the dead end and go, see, I should have never done this. And it stops us from trying the next road. When you are okay with the dead end because at least you tried, you can go down the next road, even if it might be a dead end too. Builders understand that they need to get comfortable with the uncertainty rather than the predictability.

Chris Goede:
All right, so let me put you on the spot here for a minute right now, in your mind as CEO Maxwell leadership, what is something that you are uncertain about right now? Oftentimes, I’d like to say it keeps you up at night. That’s not a really good illustration for you because we talked earlier this morning. I’m not even sure you sleep at night. But what is something as the owner, the guy carrying the weight of the mantle of leading the organization to change the world that you’re uncertain about, that you are right now you are looking and hunting and being curious, exploring as a builder for something inside the organization that you can share with our listeners.

Mark Cole:
Well, let’s keep it very relevant to the characteristics of a builder. The thing I was asking John about a week and a half ago or so now, it’s been a little while now, was what am I missing to be the builder this organization needs? What am I missing that would help me be a builder that would take his legacy to the next level again? Remember, John was very freed up, unencumbered with having to create systems with chaos. He trusted me to do that. Now, as I’m unencumbering myself and letting our leadership team, you and others, really worry about getting things done, I am finding that when I get out, I don’t see the opportunities quick enough because I still am conditioning myself to try to figure out how I would get it done. Is that even possible? Would I even worry about that? And he’s trying to get that off of me because I’m not seeing opportunities at the pace nor at the potential they could be because I’m too busy still trying to do what I’ve been doing the last 10, 12, 14 years. So to your question, as it relates to this, do I have it in me and does the organization have enough time for me to figure out how much of it I have in me without going in and sourcing it around me? We’ll figure it out. I’m not worried about that at all. Do I have the time to figure it out and develop it within or do I need to source it around me to get where we ultimately need to go? An organization, Hear me very well.

Mark Cole:
This is a driving point of this lesson. No organization has a brighter, bigger, better future without builder mentality in the organization. They just don’t have it. So do you have enough? That’s a question we’re trying to answer in this podcast. Do you, leader, have it? That’s the question we’re trying to answer in this. Do we all need to develop it? All of us need to develop more of it. But do you have enough in a timeframe that will make the difference to the opportunity that you’re facing?

Chris Goede:
Yeah, as you were talking about that, I was thinking about the discussion that we have with organizations around the world of saying, okay, culture is the number one thing you need to protect, and then you better have the skill set behind that. Right. And so as you think about bringing on staff and builders or salespeople, whatever it might be, it is culture first and then skill set. We can develop the skill set. We can. How do we get those things done? We do that. As I’m listening to you, I don’t think there’s a better person riding shotgun with the guy that we’re trying to carry the mantle for to be the builder. Right.

Chris Goede:
Because the culture’s there, the DNA is there. It’s so hard as you go through that and that tension that you probably have, that. That is uncertainty. You just walked us through. I’m unpacking a little bit for our listeners, the uncertainty that Mark is probably struggling with right around this builder, because you are learning. You’re like, am I doing it fast enough? Am I the right guy? All of those things we all say to ourselves in different times versus do I go find somebody? And then, is there a culture fit? And what does that look like? And you’re just wrestling with that in this uncertainty. So when I say I’ve seen him be comfortable in the uncomfortable, I’ve seen it for years, and it never stops. Leaders, you just better get comfortable with those thoughts that you’re dealing with.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. Well, as we work towards wrapping up, I want to go to this last one, because when I think about, at times, results up at the top that John says first and then producers down at the bottom, I initially, when I was listening to John, we were sitting here, I was like, oh, I need to unpack that a little bit. Like the difference between producing and results. And I know you unpack this for us because there is a little bit of difference. We want everybody to Be aware of. One of the things I wrote down was I think producers, and I think you live this out is have a constant pursuit of having a growth mindset. I think those that are continually challenging themselves to grow in different areas and different thoughts and different thinking, whatever it might be, have a tendency to become more like a builder. Some are naturally just gifted at you, and I know a ton of them, but it can be developed in a little bit of a pace.

Chris Goede:
When you look at the two of these, as a leader and as a builder, talk to us about the difference between results and producing.

Mark Cole:
Yeah, so. So I think results. Results is I produced.

Chris Goede:
Here’s the. Here’s the metrics.

Mark Cole:
Yep. Producers are never satisfied, like John talks about, with the fact that we. We have results. Results are not always positive. Sometimes results are negative. Production is always positive. I’m always generating and creating. Results is the metric.

Mark Cole:
It’s a measurement. Production is a mindset. And so when we see that builders never accept no for an answer. Sometimes when you’re looking at results, you accept no as an answer. That didn’t work. It didn’t work.

Chris Goede:
There’s the red numbers. There’s a negative in front of it. Exactly.

Mark Cole:
And that’s results. But build builders love results because it lets them know if they should keep doing what they’re doing or they should start doing something different. Now, let me tell you this. That leads me to the paradox of this category. Every category, if we had time for it, I have a paradox for it. The paradox with builders or producers is this. You’ve heard this statement that companies say, well, we hire slow, but we fire fast. Or companies that say, you know, we start things very methodically, but we end things quick.

Mark Cole:
Or I think that there’s some organization says, we start things quick, but we end things slow. I think a builder. They quit things quick. They quit things quick. Let me tell you something. If it’s not producing, I’ve watched John, and I have not developed this. Again, I feel I have more inadequacies in every one of these categories than I do positive. But that’s because I’m growing and learning.

Chris Goede:
Right. You’re internalizing everything.

Mark Cole:
Yes, I am, which is good in so many ways. And then for our podcast family, I hope it relates to you, because there is great momentum in what I have developed, and there’s great hope for all of us. But they quit things quick. If it’s not working, they are bored out of their mind with it. I don’t want to do it. It’s John getting to the End of the road, saying it’s a dead end. John don’t want to sit there and pontificate, why is it dead end? Because there are path forward without it, how did I get on this road? None of that matters to him. He’s just ready to go find the next thing.

Mark Cole:
They quit quick, but you know what they do? They start things quicker. And again, I’m finding a builder stops things quick. But boy, they are starting things quicker than they stop. They already have. They always have 10 things in a fire with only seven of them working through. Here’s what that does for a builder. They never get bored. They never spend too much time reflecting and waste energy on things that’s not working because there’s always something potentially working still in the fire.

Mark Cole:
That’s why John says, I still got 13 books to birth in me. Because a builder has more starting than they do stopping, but they’re quick to stop them. But every builder has more irons in the fire than they know whether they’re working or not. There’s always something simmering, there’s always something building, there’s always something boiling. And man, again, I’m trying to learn that because I want what’s in the fire to be predictable. That’s worth my time. Builder, don’t worry about it. Worth the time.

Mark Cole:
The thing that’s worth my time will bubble up. John never says, is that worth my time? He’ll go, I don’t know if it’s worth my time if it’s producing. And I’m going, I don’t know if it’s worth my time because I’m using fire and energy on this thing to see if it works. And he’s going, no, you don’t need to figure out if it works.

Chris Goede:
It’ll.

Mark Cole:
It’ll show itself if it works. That’s what’s going to show itself, that it’s worth the time and energy. So anyway, do you quit things quick and do you start things quicker?

Chris Goede:
So that’s awesome.

Mark Cole:
So that’s great. Hey, let, let me. Speaking of wrapping it up, I do want to give you something that will help you as a next step and we believe that that is high road leadership. We spend a lot of 2024 talking about high road leadership. In fact, in 2024 we created a, a digital product that we based on the High Road leadership content. If you’ve not read that book, number one, you need to pick that book up. But number two, you need to go through an online course and challenge yourself. Part of the facts of a High Road Leadership is to understand and appreciate building and what a builder mindset is.

Mark Cole:
So we have that available for you for $199. We’ll put that in the show notes and you want to take advantage of that. Hey Salem, you heard the podcast Become a Leader Communicator. We appreciate your comments. That said, you really enjoy and grow day by day with my podcast family. That’s what we want. Salem, thank you for the shout out to me and Chris. Way to go Chris.

Mark Cole:
You got the shout out and we appreciate that. Salem. We appreciate all of you. Help us. Give us a comment, give us a thought. In fact, if you’ve got a question, I’ve instructed our team. Look for the questions from our listeners and we’ll do our best to serve you and answer those questions throughout the podcast. Go make positive change.

Mark Cole:
Go make powerful change. Because everyone deserves to be led well.

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