It’s Not About You: Leadership, Communication, and Putting Others First

Mark Cole:
Welcome back to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. Happy New Year. If you’re current and up to date, I hope it’s already working. I hope those New Year’s resolutions are still being resolved. That’s right, Chris. Any New Year’s resolution. You.

Chris Goede:
I’m not talking about it because they’re already over.

Mark Cole:
He’s already complaining about having to walk to the front door of the gym to work out. Right now it’s already happening. Hey, welcome to our podcast. We really are passionate this year and every year, all of our past episodes. We’re really passionate about adding value to you. You’re important to us. We value you. But we also do that for a reason.

Mark Cole:
We value you and add value to you because we want you to go value others and multiply value to them. And so thanks for being on the podcast with us in the podcast family with us. Go back and listen to previous episodes. They’re not bad. I promise you they will help you. And we’re excited about today’s episode. Chris, I’m glad you’re glad to be here. Yep.

Mark Cole:
I am not going to put you on the spot on your New Year’s resolutions. What I am going to do is I’m going to put all of us on the spot because John today is going to make a nine word statement in the lesson that I want you to grab. And here’s the nine word statement. It’s not about you. It is all about others. And John’s going to teach us about that today as he teaches. It’s not about you, it’s about leadership, communication and, and putting others first. If you would like to download a bonus resource we have for you, if you would like to get into the show, notes, if you’d like to watch us on video and make sure that Chris is dressed right today, you can go to MaxwellPodcast.com/OthersFirst.

Mark Cole:
And we’ll have tools and resources there to equip you. Here we go. It is going to be a great lesson, Chris and I will be back to apply it. Listen up, here’s John.

John Maxwell:
The advice I give you is just very simple. Life’s not about you. And maybe another way to say it that’s a little nastier is just get over yourself. And in fact, I tell people all the time you ought to laugh at yourself. Everyone else is. So you might as well laugh at yourself and get over yourself. Don’t take yourself seriously. But where I learned that and got that advice was when I was in college.

John Maxwell:
My father was the president of the first college I Went to. And it was a theological school because I was going into ministry. And so we had a college quartet, and I happened to be in that college quartet. And we were in Michigan on a trip, a kind of a musical tour. And we were going to do something that night, and we were making a group decision. There were five of us in the quartet. My dad happened to be with us on this trip. And so we were kind of deciding what we’re going to do that evening.

John Maxwell:
And I didn’t get my way, and I expressed myself. I said, I pouted and I was not happy. And I let everybody know I wasn’t happy. And I’ll never forget that. My father said, excuse me. He pulled me out of the group and we went to another room where we were staying, and he sat me on the bed and he gave me my first lecture on it’s not about you, John. And it was in that setting that he taught me the difference between maturity and immaturity. You talk about advice that helps you to grow up real quick, you know.

John Maxwell:
He said, maturity, a person that’s mature, they can see perspective from other people’s viewpoint. He says, somebody that’s in mature, they can only see their own perspective. It’s all about them, and it’s all about what they think or what they see. And he said, john, you were very immature out there. It was all about you. And when you didn’t get your way, it was really all about you. Because he said, you kind of created a fuss. And then I remember he grounded me.

John Maxwell:
He just said, I just think that there are a couple privileges I just need to kind of take away from you until you kind of get a little bit more mature, because it’s not about you. And what I tell people all the time is the day you become a great communicator and start the step of learning greatness and communication is when you get over yourself. When I talk to you, I’m talking to you right now. It’s not about me. It has nothing to do about me. Has everything to do about you. I’ve got some thoughts here on my iPad, but by and large, it’s all about you. I was reading an article by Jerry Seinfeld, the great comedian, and it was very.

John Maxwell:
It was very interesting, very insightful about comedy. And so my favorite part, I’m just pulling out part of the article. It was a quote by his, and I want to read it to you. He said he was talking about how to be successful in comedy. He said, if you’re doing it for Them, the audience, you’ll be fine. If you’re doing it for you. That could be problematic at a certain point because they’ll know it, they’ll feel it, and they won’t like it. When I read that, I thought, this man understands communication.

John Maxwell:
Basically he says, as long as it’s about the audience, you’re just going to go. But he said, the moment you get wrapped up in yourself, he said, there’s going to come a time. They may not catch on the first time, but there’s going to come a time where they’re going to begin to know it, they’re going to begin to feel it and they’re not going to like it because they’re going to know now what you’re doing is self serving. And so as I ponder Seinfeld’s words, I believe that they hold value that far beyond just comedy and the entertainment industry. And I would sum up the key point in just nine words. It’s not about you, it’s all about them. And I think that is major advice. You see, there’s incredible power when you just focus on others.

John Maxwell:
Again, my life was changed when I heard Zig Ziglar in my twenties say, as a leader, if you’ll help people get what they want, they’ll help you get what you want. And all of a sudden I realized I had to pivot, that I was saying, get on my leadership train. And it was all about me. And that day Zig said, no, no, it’s not about you, John, it’s about others. And I walked out of there and I said, okay, what Zig is teaching me now, what I’m passing on to you as far as best advice today is, is add value to people first. You be the first to help them. Don’t wait for them to step up and help you. And I know that doesn’t make sense, but here, I want you to catch this.

John Maxwell:
The more you value others and the more that you add value to others, the more that you’ll receive value back from others. I don’t know, this would almost be the lull of the boomerang. Okay. There’s something about once you pour into other people and quit worrying about what you’re gonna receive or quit worrying about how much they like you, all of a sudden there’s a return again. I was reading an article by Amazon founder Jeff Bezos and he said something very interesting. He said he credited Amazon’s growth and long term success on what he called obsessive compulsive focus on the customer and he has a whole list of what he calls customer obsession, which number one is that you put the people absolutely first. And I just, this is such an incredible principle. And so I was writing down some things that I wanted to pass on you.

John Maxwell:
For example, if you’re in sales, if the buyer believes that you have their best interest all the time, when they’re ready to buy, they’ll seek you out. If you’re a speaker and the audience knows that it’s all about them and not about you, they’ll not only embrace your message, they’ll embrace you as a manager. If you’re kind and you’re encouraging and you give corrective feedback, the people, they’ll work harder for you, they’ll come back and they’ll make those positive changes. When I write, when I write, if I’m writing pages and it’s about hope and help, I know that that reader is going to keep turning the pages. It just happens that way. As a leader, if I’m building trust in my people, I know that they’re going to give me trust in return. It’s kind of like the golden rule. Treat others as you’d like to be treated and all of a sudden it comes back to you.

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Mark Cole:
Chris. As we come out of just John’s teaching, I thinking about. I’ve heard Simon say this publicly. I’ve also seen him write it. I’ve seen it in a book. He says leadership is not about being in charge, it’s about taking care of those in your charge. And so I’m really excited to be back. I’ve been looking for the opportunity to roast you a little Bit.

Mark Cole:
You and I and our wives had dinner together not too long ago. And you call me and say, hey, I’ll be about 10 minutes late, or text me. I think you did. I’ll be about 10 minutes late. And I went, that’s no problem. I’ve got Stephanie here. We’ll have a 10 minute date. We’ll speed date right here.

Mark Cole:
And then you text me a little bit later. And you’re not 10 minutes away, you’re six miles away. You went to the wrong restaurant. And then you call me back and say, it’s not. It’s going to be a little bit later. And I think it ended up being about an hour and 10 minutes later. And I came in and I just went, wow, it must really all be about you. And I just want to know you, to know publicly that I have forgiven you.

Mark Cole:
I’ve waited on this. I’ve sat on this for now about a month. And I want you to know I’ve forgiven you. But I do think I see some tendencies there that it is about you.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, like I’m no longer coming back on the podcast. But also, there’s so many things in between those statements and those texts that happen in the car with my wife that I am still reliving. And for example, you know, Mark, we had another couple with us and they said, just push through, Chris, just push through. And I said, that’s if I don’t get pushed out of the car. Because my wife, who’s super excited about this evening of celebration and hanging out with the Coles, was like, I mean, we don’t get to do this all the time. And the one time you put the wrong address in. And then for those of you that have a significant other and have been in situations like that, it went downhill from there. And it was only 3.3 miles in Atlanta and it still took me an hour and 10 minutes.

Chris Goede:
It wasn’t the wrong restaurant. It was the wrong. I got all kinds of justifications, right, the wrong location. I didn’t know it was a chain restaurant. I put it in and it sent me in the wrong path. But anyway, I digress.

Mark Cole:
We’ll do it again in the next five years.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, but listen, I promise you, it’s not about me because that being me in that situation was not a good thing going on in the car. Anyways, let’s talk about this. But I hope you guys enjoy that. And because I didn’t laugh when I hear John talk about this, Mark, I go, man, leadership’s hard. It’s simple. When you think about how he talks about increasing your influence is what we’re talking about with the right motive. Now, let me just be. I want to be really clear really quick here.

Chris Goede:
He talks about, hey, it’s not about you, it’s about them. And when that happens, you know, it does come back to you, but you got to do it with the right motive. And because there’s a. There’s a very fine line between influence and manipulation. It’s called your motive. And John, 100% is on the influence side of here. And you listen to him, you go, yeah, that’s right. That’s what it should be about.

Chris Goede:
And you go, that’s hard to do because I got to lead them the way they want to be led. I got to communicate to the way they need to be communicated. I got to love them the way that they needed to be loved. But that’s what influence really is, and that’s what separates the great leaders and those that have great influence than the others. Because you’re going to put the work in to be able to do that. Towards the end of the podcast, he talked about when you’re speaking, when you’re communicating, and how you go about making sure it’s about them. You’ll know this. I remember.

Chris Goede:
I’ll never forget this. And I think about this all the time when I get the privilege to go stand on the stage on behalf of you and John. A young communicator came up to John. They were both backstage, and the. The young communicator was nervous and what am I going to say? And this and that. So he looked at John and he said, like, why are you just sitting here smiling like it’s no big deal, like, what are you thinking about right now? And he simply said, I’m thinking about what they need to hear, what they need to hear. And I think about that all the time. And I saw you live this out at our IMC several, several ago, and you started, this is a brilliant.

Chris Goede:
This is one of the best I’ve ever seen. You started in the audience in a chair. Matter of fact, they introduced you. And I was in the back of the room. I was like, somebody go get Mark out of the bathroom. Where is Mark? And then the spotlight came out of the bathroom. Throw it up. Yeah, yeah.

Chris Goede:
You were wondering, like, what do I want to say, right? But then the spotlight came and you were sitting with the people, and you started with the people and you then walked up and then you shared a message. And I’ll never forget seeing everybody Leaning forward more and engaged with you and listening to you. Because what you shared that day was about them and it was where they were. That’s the brilliant thing. And you connected the dots right there for them and completely added value to them. So take us through that situation because there was a lot you said that day, a lot that you physically showed, but I think it was so impactful. And you lived out this lesson of saying it’s not about you. Right.

Chris Goede:
Meaning you, the communicator, it was about everybody else and thousands of people in the audience. Can you give us the backstory of how you got there and then the feedback and the connection that you had with the people during that moment?

Mark Cole:
You know, so thank you for that, Chris. And I went back as you were talking and I relived that moment. And if I go back, I’ve now spoken on John Maxwell stages, I don’t know, 150 times a lot in the last eight years. Stages that I got because of my affiliation with John Maxwell many, many years ago. I spoke on stages and talked and did that. But when I started about eight years ago, the fear that I had, the fish out of water, this is not what I should be, want to be or could be doing to best use my time. I can’t describe it to you. You know, they say the greatest fear that is out there is the fear of public speaking.

Mark Cole:
Right. That wasn’t what the deal was. It wasn’t the fear of public speaking. It’s the idea that I don’t know that I have something to contribute. I don’t know that I’m going to.

Chris Goede:
Do a good job self sabotaging.

Mark Cole:
Exactly. We did a lesson two weeks ago. We did an episode about self awareness. I know I was not a good speaker. I know people are not sitting there wanting me to speak and because I know that they would rather hear other speakers. And I’m not going to get reviewed well and I’m not going to be very effective and I’m not going to be as good as John. Are you hearing the trend? I, I, I, I, I’m not.

Chris Goede:
You were worried about yourself.

Mark Cole:
It’s all about me. Every bit of my critique. Now go back to that moment, okay? Go back to that moment. Of all the times I’ve spoken, and I’ve spoken again 150, 200 times on a Maxwell stage. Of all the times I’ve spoken, that still is the one people come up and talk about. I don’t think it was because of my creative idea that I actually stole from another Communicator. I watched another communicator start from the back of an audience and work itself up to the front. That’s where I got the idea that day.

Mark Cole:
That’s not why I did it that day. The message that I wanted to communicate was not one that I wanted people to see me on stages. I wanted them to see me as an audience member that now was on a stage because we communicate you where they are, see me where they are and see that they could too take the, what was it, 50, 100 steps from the seat that I started to the stage where I am now. And I wanted them to see the journey and it wasn’t as far as they thought. And I’m not as quite of a pedestal stander than they think I am. I’m really a butt in a seat kind of a guy. And I’m standing on stages today. But won’t, don’t let that confuse you.

Mark Cole:
Let that inspire you. Don’t let that encourage you. Let the steps I took from the seat to the stage inspire you. Now I think that’s why that day was good. Because I finally did what John Maxwell’s been telling me all of my speaking career to do. Quit making it about you, Mark. Make it about them. And when you told, when you started sharing that with me, I went mind blown.

Mark Cole:
Because that’s exactly what John has been trying to tell me all of my speaking career. I don’t feel the fear when he gives me a million dollar decision to make. Now I did at first because I didn’t see myself as a million dollar decision maker. Now I make those and we make good ones and we make bad ones. I don’t take myself seriously. The ups and the downs of a good decision is not resting completely on me. And it’s not all.

Chris Goede:
And by the way, those decisions you make are not about you. You’re actually thinking about others while making those decisions. But you’ve learned that I crossed that bridge.

Mark Cole:
But the most recent one where I learned that is this speaking one that you brought up. And I went, oh my gosh. Because even today, just a few weeks ago, I was in a speaker’s boot camp with John Maxwell and Ryan Leak and we were teaching communicators people that are already making 10, 15, 20, $25,000 a keynote, how to get even better to be at the Ryan Leek or the John Maxwell deal. And I sit down as a student and here was the reoccurring message. Chris, you weren’t even in that setting. I was not the reoccurring message was the best communicators are the ones that make it about the audience, not about them. The best communicators are not the ones that try to impress people with their PowerPoint but to impact people with what’s on the PowerPoint. The best leaders are not the great storytellers.

Mark Cole:
It’s the ones that get people to tell the story. The best leaders are not the heroes. It’s the ones that know how to make the heroes in the stage, in the audience. And I’m sitting here today realizing I have a lot more to learn because as John said, those most powerful nine words, it’s not about you. It is always about others. And you and I communicate better, period, when we make it about others.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. It’s transitioning from speaking even to what John said about leadership. Right. Like, if you’re leading way out in front, it’s really just about you. It’s like, look at me. You got to go find the people. And you went and found the people and they easily identified right away with this visual example. And then your content followed.

Chris Goede:
They’re going to remember your content. They’ll never forget where you started. That’s right. And then as you talked, as you walked up the stage and so when you think about that, you put them in that message from. You started working on it yet, whatever example, that’s great for somebody else. But the fact that they go, man, he thought about me and isn’t this true? Everybody inside our organization, our influence, you’re leading the team, whatever. They want to be seen, valued and heard, period. Seen, valued and heard.

Chris Goede:
Mark, you saw them, you valued where they were sitting. You hear that they have a desire to be up there and you just literally went from where they are and. And took them through the journey, the process that you went on. And I think that is when an example, if you’re communicating how you can 100% back it up and say it wasn’t about Mark. So what does that look like when you’re communicating to your team, to your family, whatever it might look like?

Mark Cole:
Let me say this before we move. So we are fortunate and I’m looking you right in the camera. For those of you that watch YouTube, we’re fortunate to have so many direct marketing or direct sales type organizations that are befriend John and myself and listen into our podcast. And I love every one of you, your enthusiasm, your excitement. You’re giving people a chance to work from home, have flexibility, add to their income. There are so many incredible things about the industry. That I love. The best network marketers, the best direct sellers, are people that talk equally about their struggles as their successes.

Mark Cole:
When you talk mostly about your successes, you make yourself the hero. You make yourself the. The one that becomes unreachable. And I say this to all of my network marketing, my direct sales friends, you can’t build sustainability in your business, in your platform, in your communication, in your leadership. If all you do is talk about the good side of you, the highlight reel of you, you become inaccessible, you become unrelatable, and you become untouchable. And when that happens in your leadership, in your business, in your industry, when you do that, you think it’s not about you, because your whole message is, you can have it too. You can have it too. You can have it too.

Mark Cole:
You can have what to your lifestyle. It’s still about you. You become relatable when you allow the struggles and the successes to share the same message, to share the same stage, to share the same challenge. And that’s what I really want to challenge. Many of us leaders, Chris, we think we’re making it about others, but we keep pointing to ourselves to make it about others, and we become unrelatable.

Chris Goede:
It’s how you define the difference between being successful and significant, right? Like success should be in the growth of those around you. Not necessarily saying, look at my success. And when you think about that, it really is that journey from success to significance, it takes on a role of intentionality, takes on a role of servant leadership. It takes a mindset shift to be able to do that. When I mentioned the word significant, I think one of the greatest examples for me that comes to mind right away is, and servant leadership is how you’re leading our nonprofit with Equip. And when I look at this, it’s not about you, it’s not about John. It’s not about the donors. But what’s incredible is that I watch you guys take donors on a journey from sitting in that seat in the.

Chris Goede:
To the hundred feet up to the stage. And that stage just happens to be our international and domestic work of changing lives. You take them on that journey, so there’s growth there in them. But the impact of people around the world is, is really what the focus is on. And John talks about that. You got to shift your focus. You’re intentional about that with Equip and how we go about doing that, it’s not about. This is going to outlive John, you, your kids, whatever.

Chris Goede:
When you and John have conversations about that and shifting the focus, it’s not About John. It’s not about Mark. It’s about the impact around the world. What are those conversations? Like what. What’s the reason behind it? Because that’s another example of you two living out that it’s not about you. It’s about the mission. It’s about the impact versus the individual. Can you take us behind the scenes of that?

Mark Cole:
Yeah, it’s. It’s a real intentionality, Chris, that no matter who your audience is, it’s about them, you know, talking about equip. Just a little bit of time ago, I was in Africa and we were in Kenya, and about 65 country facilities or country coordinators was in the room with us. That’s helping with these massive numbers of impact that we’re having with both youth at the country level and then people finding more meaning than just success or leading. And we’re sitting there and right before we went out, we did something we do every time we look at one another and we go, they’re talking to people. They’re impacting people. We’ll never meet. John, he says it sometimes to me, Mark, we would be nothing if these people were not in our lives.

Mark Cole:
Mark. The numbers that we have is only possible because the people we’re going to speak to. So somehow there’s a mindset right before you walk into any setting, any situation of figuring out a way to make them the hero, to make them the linchpin. And whether he’s talking to the people in the roundtables, whether I’m talking to people that are leading the roundtables, we call them facilitators, or whether we’re talking to the country coordinators, the people that are on the ground, the boots in the ground, or whether I walk across, across the street and talk to our nonprofit team that every single day come up and build the system resource, the system. Every time before I walk in, when I’m good, it goes back to your subject. The reason that time is still impacting you of speaking and not the other 149 times is because that time I got it right. I made it about the people. My message, my motive, my mindset was all about the people.

Mark Cole:
I was trying to communicate that day, and it clicked. The stars aligned because everything was about them. We’ll go in and make it about people. But you know why? So we can get them to like us.

Chris Goede:
It still is. Still. Yeah.

Mark Cole:
But when you can get your motive, your method, and your message to all line up to where it’s about the people, other it’s about someone else, you will have greater success. You will go further. And so back to your question. When John and I are running this nonprofit, it really isn’t about us. Sometimes in the for profit, we become a little self confident. Man, man, I’m making it happen. I’m a leader.

Chris Goede:
But in our nonprofit deal, doing this.

Mark Cole:
In our nonprofit, both with our student work and our transformation work, man, there is no way John nor I can take any of that credit. There are too many fingers and hands in that pocket. And by the way, in our nonprofit, it takes a lot of God’s favor too, by the way, because we are nothing without all those components.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, I, I love that. Again, it goes back to just the word we love here, which is growth. You guys are having that conversation because you want to add value and you want to grow and see growth happen to those that you’re speaking to. It’s not about the two of you. It’s not the fact that you’re, you were on a three week international trip and we’re doing this and no, it’s like right here. And I love that John is just present. You and John right backstage. Let’s get grounded right here.

Chris Goede:
Let’s put our boots on the ground. The other example that I thought about again, another really practical way for our listeners or viewers that are with us today is three questions that when I share these in corporate America, I always preface, I go, listen. Okay, these didn’t come out of Harvard, but they will have a bigger impact than any study you could read out of Harvard. And you need to understand this. And this is really the root of John’s, it’s not about you. And if leaders could understand this, I think it would be absolutely huge. It would increase your engagement level with everything that you do. I want to take you through the three questions and whatever comes to mind, kind of free flowing how you’ve used it, where you’ve used it.

Chris Goede:
Because what I want to do is flesh out a little bit of it being about other people, not about Mark Cole and his leadership. Okay, good with this, because you put me on the spot earlier for being late, which is why I missed the other 149 speeches. I was late to it. The first question that every follower is asking of their leaders, and let me define it really quick. We define leadership as influence, so you don’t have to have a title. Tenure, it’s. It could be a peer. Some of your volunteer, they are asking these three questions.

Chris Goede:
First one, a lot of people ask, does my leader, does the person I’m giving influence? Do they care about me. Speak a little bit to that and maybe what’s the motive behind it and how we should respond to that as leaders.

Mark Cole:
So let me. So it’s so funny that you brought up how I opened this podcast about throwing you under the bus. You told me we oftentimes we talk very little, if at all, about what we’re going to share with one another in the, in the podcast. We listen to John and then off we go. You told me about these three questions before I brought up that example because I knew. When you brought this up, I brought up the example of being late and all that because. Because of this question right here. Do I care for you? Last night I watched you in your demeanor.

Mark Cole:
You don’t like being late, you don’t like disappointing people, and you don’t like misusing opportunities that don’t come around long.

Chris Goede:
Correct.

Mark Cole:
And so you beat yourself up, then you let your wife beat yourself up, and then you.

Chris Goede:
I don’t know that it was in that order, but we’ll agree.

Mark Cole:
And then you came and I watched the longer you were there, you let that go and then just enjoy the moment. And so I watched that because that eats you up. Reggie. Reggie. And his wife was a little bit late, too, but it doesn’t eat him like it does you. I know how it eats you.

John Maxwell:
Yeah.

Mark Cole:
And when you told me you were going to bring those three questions up earlier, I went, I’m going to start with this. I’m going to start with this story because I want to come back. The reason I brought that story up is because I wanted to tell you in front of people, as an illustration here, that I care for you. And I watched that care for you begin to release itself five, ten minutes in, and you started laughing about it and having a better time about it and then just being okay about it. As leaders, we got to know what bothers people and what celebrates people or what makes people celebrate. We talk about the five love languages. We need to understand all of that. We teach companies on understanding five levels and how effective they are.

Mark Cole:
And you’ve got a Maxwell leadership assessment that we do, a 360 degree assessment where we get to know what makes people come alive. Yeah, we need to know what makes people feel heavy, too.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, that’s good.

Mark Cole:
And we need to take note of that. And we need to take note of that in a way that is caring and loving, not critical and humorous. And so I had fun with it at the beginning, but I want to tell you last night, my greatest concern. Last night Sitting at that table, knowing how that was going to eat you was would you be able to unsettle that and be able to get it. So what did we do? We got food on the table. We were able to still eat. We got there, we had a great time. It was super enjoyable.

Mark Cole:
But I started thinking at the end, I knew how that was going to eat you. I knew how it was going to be you. You got to know what eats what, what is difficult for your team, as well as what celebrates them. You need to go through podcast family. You need to go through painstakingly of not only knowing their hotspots, their hot buttons, to get them excited. You need to know their buttons that really deplete and discourage them as well.

Chris Goede:
And it aligns with how we started, which was this is. It’s. It’s hard, it’s simple, it’s not easy. So in a personality profile, to build onto this from a. There’s all kinds of them out there. Enneagram. Right. I’m a three, which is an achiever.

Mark Cole:
Yeah.

Chris Goede:
So Mark knows that about me. And so because I hit the wrong button, you’re planning on being there early. I was going to be there early. Right. And so that achievement in me goes back to what you’re talking about, the self sabotaging on the stage. Your leader, John, knows that about you. Yep. And would speak into it.

Chris Goede:
And he’s caring for you as you were caring for me last night. A great example of getting me out of that. Hey, buddy. It’s not like this wasn’t for an Olympic gold medal. Like if you showed up at on time. Let’s, let’s, let’s kind of work through it and had fun and laughed and there was food, which. Food always helps me.

Mark Cole:
It always helps. Now let me go to this, let me go to this next one because I want to. I want to flow right here.

Chris Goede:
Good. Do it.

Mark Cole:
Can. Can you help me?

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Mark Cole:
Now, let me tell you why we’re married to sisters. They’re not blood sisters, but they’re the same. If last night would have happened to me and my wife, whom I love, and I’m very well pleased and just celebrated 21 years.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. Congrats.

Mark Cole:
Thank you. If that would have happened last night, it wouldn’t have just messed last night up, it would have messed the next several nights and weekends. And because we don’t let go of things. Well. And, and when I say we, I’m collectively talking about me and Stephanie, but I have opinion of who can’t let stuff go quick. Quicker. Here’s what I’m saying. I also knew you’re right in the middle of creating a crazy good experience for your wife.

Chris Goede:
That’s right.

Mark Cole:
And if last night would have happened at the beginning of my weekend experience, there is a chance I would have missed the whole weekend by not letting it go. What I don’t want to let happen is last night to bleed over into a weekend ahead of you. Because I can help you figure a way out to release it from your wife so she’ll release it. So the next three days is incredible. And the reason I can help you with that is because too many times I didn’t let it happen and it messed up a whole wonderful experience that I was having.

Chris Goede:
It’s all coming to life. I Remember clearly now, 30 days ago how you helped me through the situation, but you did. I’m sorry, because as soon as we walked in, you took charge. You were present. You’re good. Hey, everybody eat like you absolutely helped.

Mark Cole:
And so just let that go. Because one moment, one moment can mess up a bunch of future moments that you’ve put a lot of energy into. And I don’t want.

Chris Goede:
That’s good with people that I love.

Mark Cole:
That if I’m going to lead them. Can I help? Do you care for me or do you care for me? We talked about that. Can I help you? Yes, sir, I can help you. I can absolutely release this so that for your sake, it’s not a three day experience like it would be for my sake.

Chris Goede:
What, what’s coming to mind really quick is Stephanie also helped in the situation. And so I’m gonna do some reverse coaching. I’m gonna call up Stephanie like you two did a phenomenal job. Help me. You help yourselves like next time.

Mark Cole:
That’s exactly right.

Chris Goede:
I’m gonna tell her that. But that’s a really good example. Again, Mark is my leader and I, we can answer, even just in this illustration, those two questions last night of the relationship question, does he care about me? Yes. The, the competence question, can he help me? He’s confident. Cause he’s been in that situation and so he can help me. Now we’re using this with, with a relational illustration. But this is, this is across the board.

Mark Cole:
Sure.

Chris Goede:
Any type of intellect, skill set, job performance, family member. And then finally, the, the question that John says every follower is asking is, do I trust them? And this is the, this is the character question. And again, remember, we’re talking about, it’s not about you, it’s about them. And so as leaders, what we’re what we’re setting up for you here is how does Mark kind of see these live out in his leadership? So, so that they answer it and they know no Mark’s for me. Right. Like unpacking this for you guys. You guys can clearly see that Mark was helping me in a situation that I was self sabotaging. Right.

Chris Goede:
And then also helping me get out of it in. In front of the environment. And then I absolutely trust him to be able to do that. And so I can answer those questions and know that it wasn’t about Mark in the moment. He was actually about me trying to help me through that process and told me to eat in three minutes and get in the car because they were then going to the next spot. This trust question, we say authenticity is a trust accelerator. And it’s really about leaders and followers being authentic with each other. As you wrap up this segment that we just did about.

Chris Goede:
It’s not about you and it’s about them. How. How important is that in your leadership journey? And what comes to mind when you think about this question that John says that every follower is asking about you?

Mark Cole:
This is the hardest one, in my opinion. I think, I think authentic breeds. I think authenticity demonstrates care. I think competency demonstrates the question, can you help me? I think trust has to constantly be revisited because it’s true that it takes a lifetime to build trust and it takes a moment to destroy it.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Mark Cole:
And I don’t know if that’s the cynicism of human nature. I don’t know if that’s Fallen Man. I don’t know what it is, but I know it’s true. I know that we constantly. And I’ve had leaders. I’ve got a situation right now about my leadership from a teammate that has trusted me for years and I mishandled something with them in a crisis moment for them. And I don’t know if I’m going to be able to make a withdrawal of trust ever again, but certainly for a long time. And it feels rough, it feels punitive, it feels a no win situation.

Mark Cole:
It feels insulting. How long did I. I can’t be human. It feels offensive. Feels all those things on my side. And yet it’s a reality. Can they trust me? And today the answer would be no way. But could you trust him for 10 years, every single moment before this? Yeah.

Mark Cole:
A lot of trust. And in one moment now my trustworthiness is completely shot. But I’ll tell you this. I was working with a teammate a couple of weeks ago and they’re really Wanting some empowerment in an area that I don’t trust them in. And I looked at that teammate and I said, I can’t give you this. I can’t give you this much empowerment because our trust meter is not at 100% in this area. It’s at 75% and you can’t do it. I’m continuing to put myself or others into a micromanagement role with you in this area.

Mark Cole:
And they went, what do I got to do to build the trust? And I said, I’ve told you and you didn’t go through the steps. Well, what do I need to do now? Do the same steps. And I could. I watched on an incredible teammate, a teammate that’s producing great things. I watched the face fall of realizing that they still didn’t have the trust of a leader that they really want trust from. The reason I’m giving you two very melancholy answers is, this is a big one. Yeah, boy. When someone puts their trust in you, gang, consider that the most valuable thing someone can give you.

Mark Cole:
And do your best to protect it, do your best to grow it, do your best to win it back, but never diminish the power of someone’s trust in you or. Or someone losing that trust in you because it’s a game changer. Either way, I love that.

Chris Goede:
Last thought I have around. This is. I recently had a conversation that just came to mind as you were talking about it with one of my teammates. John mentioned about feedback on the podcast, and we’re getting ready to roll out an incredible corporate training around feedback, firm feedback, and how to have it. And it’s really about getting the trust to be able to have that conversation. And it only happens you’re only able to do that when, over time, as Mark talked about, they can answer these three questions about their leader, their peer, whoever it is that the answers are, yes, that you can have that conversation. So this has probably been now, about three months ago, had to have a candid conversation and feedback with one of my team. And this is how I started the conversation.

Chris Goede:
I said, hey, set everything aside. We have to have a conversation about some things. And I want to get right to it. And I said, but I got three questions for you first. And they leaned in and they said, yeah. I said, hey, do you think I care about you? They said, yeah, do you think I can help you? They said, yeah, do you trust me? Yeah. I said, okay, I got to tell you a couple things then that I think will help you and that will increase my trust with you and you with Me, if you’re willing to have it, let’s go. And we had the conversation, a very tough conversation.

Mark Cole:
But I love how you set it up.

Chris Goede:
But it’s the first time I’ve ever done this. First time three months ago.

Mark Cole:
Really good.

Chris Goede:
First time I ever did it. And I got them to a place. Why? Because I was concerned going in. And I wanted it to be about them, not about me as a leader coming over the top and saying, you’re going to do this or else. Right? And so I thought a lot about it ahead of time and I totally forgot about it until you just were given that example about your tough conversation. And I thought, I’m just going to share it off the top of the cuff. Because that conversation, while it impacts Maxwell leadership, while it impacts my leadership, all that’s great. It wasn’t about either one of those.

Chris Goede:
It was about them. And I wanted to set the tone early on, letting them know that. And I just used these three. Remember what I said? They didn’t come from Harvard Business Review. Like, this is not a doctoral study on what Mark and I are talking about you. This is John Maxwell’s brilliance in his simplicity. And it’s just not easy to live out.

Mark Cole:
Do you care for me? Every leader. Leader out there, listen, every person following you has three questions for you, whether they’re stating them or not. Do you care for me? Can you help me? Can I trust you? Those are your three questions. And setting up complicated, difficult conversations with those three questions and affirming them on the front end. Chris, that’s brilliant. That is good application for all of us. Maybe some of you need to go have a tough conversation now. You know how to do it.

Mark Cole:
Hey, we had a listener comment from the podcast, your motives matter. The episode youe motives Matter. And I love this. Thank you. You didn’t give us your name, so I can’t recognize you, but here it is. Strong reminder, my motives do matter. Leadership rises when motives shift from personal gain to truly serving and elevating others. And my dear podcast friend, you are 100% right.

Mark Cole:
We have an episode that I feel like really will go with today’s and really help you. If you’ve not heard all the past episodes or if you need to go back and listen to it, and that episode is what serving others has taught me. We’ll put that in the show notes. You will enjoy that podcast as well. Thanks for listening today. We’ll see you next week. Go tell a friend about the Maxwell leadership podcast and let us help your friends as well. Hey, we have a resource if you want to dig in deeper to what we’re talking about today.

Mark Cole:
It’s called Every Day with Purpose. Regularly it’s $199, but today for our podcast listeners, it’s $49. Take advantage of it. Go do well. Go lead well. Go do a positive thing for someone with your leadership because everyone deserves to be led well.

Maxwell Leadership Certified Team:
Hey podcast listeners, many of you listening right now would probably love the autonomy that comes with owning your own business or becoming a coach that helps other businesses succeed. Well, we have a phenomenal strategy where you are are 100% in control of your own business, earning income on your own terms, and have access to the people, tools and resources you need to build a thriving leadership development business. When you become a Maxwell Leadership Certified Team Member, you join a global community of entrepreneurs led by our expert team of mentors and faculty, including John C. Maxwell. You’ll also get one of the top leadership certifications in the world next to your name, giving you the boost you need to get started. Visit us online at MaxwellLeadership.com/JoinTheTeam to find out more.

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