A Minute to Think with Juliet Funt

Mark Cole:

Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. This is the podcast that adds value to leaders who multiply value to others. My name is Mark Cole, and a couple of weeks ago, I introduced you to the podcast listener, Oliver in Houston, Texas. And Oliver, this is for you. But I’ve got to tell you, this is one of my most exciting podcasts we’ve ever done. And Oliver, I don’t feel bad because John Maxwell says the day that his current book is not his favorite book is the day he’s going to stop writing. So the day that my current podcast is not my favorite podcast, I’m going to quit doing podcasts. Now, the reason I’m excited is because today I am joined by author, speaker, and now my good friend, Juliet Font. Juliet just released a book called A Minute to Think. Some of you need to put pause and you need to go order the book right now, because in this book, A Minute to Think, she talks about reclaiming creativity, conquering busyness, doing your best work. She is one of our featured speaker at our upcoming Day To Grow event on August the 14th. I’ll talk more about that later. You can find out more information about the event. You can purchase tickets for the event maxwellleadership.com/daytogrow. Juliet, I now have been in the room with you. I’ve watched you. I’m learning from you in leadership. And today I’m going to learn with you, with our podcast family. Welcome. Glad you’re here.

Juliet Funt:

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I’m seeing you so often, I feel like we’re family now.

Mark Cole:

I told Juliet, I said, this is literally two times in one week, the day we’re recording the podcast. She was in our offices earlier speaking to our team, and I said, Juliet, this is two times in one week. How can we do it next week? Next week she’s on vacation. She don’t want to see Mark Cole. So anyway, we’ll pick it up when you get back. But hey, before we go too deep in with Juliet, I’d like to remind you, our podcast listeners, our podcast family, our viewers today, you’re going to want to tune in to YouTube as well. You can watch this episode maxwellpodcast.com/YouTube. We also have a free bonus resource with you that we want to offer you. It’s a fill in the blank worksheet that accompanies this episode and will allow you to take notes and make application. As Juliet teaches, you can access maxwellpodcast.com/minutetothink. Now, thinking is no unusual thing at Maxwell podcast because John wrote a book, how Successful People Think. And I just want to challenge you. In fact, we’ll put that in the show notes. But I want to challenge you to think about thinking. But now, today we’re going to challenge you to take a minute to be focused. And that’s why today in this episode, we brought Juliet Fun. She’s speaking for us in the future. She just spoke to our team. But today I can promise you you’re going to have an incredible opportunity to be challenged in the way you think, in the way that you produce and are productive with your time. Juliet, thank you again. But I really want to start before I ask you some questions and I got a lot I would really like you to talk about. And you’ve put your life’s work into this book. This is not some cute little idea that you thought you’d write a profound book on. This is the culmination of your life’s work, the sum of your activity. And so I want you to take a few minutes and I want you to talk about the book, the concept of the book, and help us to shape our life so that we will have a minute or some minutes to think.

Juliet Funt:

It is. I am not John, I am not someone who writes and writes and writes. I just had a 24 year career and then finally stopped and wrote it all down. And the entire time I have to tell you, I have been an observer to the tolerated misery of modern work. And I have been in places where human beings wake up every morning with a good attempt at bringing courage and talent and enthusiasm and then are just crushed by the nature of work, by an avalanche of emails and meetings and decks and reports and garbage and by the complacency around work just being something that we tolerate. And that was really the impetus to write this book, to create a training manual of sorts to exit that paradigm and to let go of some of the urgency and complete mania and frenzy that we have become so socially comfortable at calling work. So it was really a pleasure for me. I wrote the book in a very what Cal Newport would call monastic way, where I went away for days at a time and wrote and wrote. And I think that if anyone wants to get to know me or the work that we then do in companies, they just enter the world of this book and they will feel what we feel, which is that work should be a place of balance and focus and humanity and sanity and that it doesn’t have to feel that way. And the reason that I know that it doesn’t have to feel that way is we’ve helped lots of companies make that transition. And I’ve seen what’s possible. I’ve seen that a weekend feeling is possible in the week. And what I mean by that is when you walk into work to do a little extra on the Saturday or the Sunday afternoon, you know that different feeling where you walk in, it’s quiet like a church, you take breaks as your body request them. You work, you flow, there’s no pings dings people and you get up after 2 hours and you feel like you’ve done the work of 1000 people. And what the work that we do is giving people mental models, framework, and very specific instruction to take that weekend flavor and bring it into Monday through Friday. Now, all of it centers around one foundational metaphor. And you asked me to tell this story, so I will, and that is of my growing up in Manhattan, which will lead us to kind of the goodies here. I grew up as a city kid, did not learn country kid things. I learned the things you learn in Manhattan. I learned how to hail a cab in the rain, and I learned how to find good sublaki. But one thing that really eluded me was how to build a fire. Never came up. Shouldn’t come up if you’re living in an apartment. And then many years and three kids later, when my teen boys now were about six, eight and ten, my husband and all of us went to Big Bear Lake near La. For a little getaway. And we were driving up there. It was three boys in the backseat. So, you know that road trip, they were alternating between two games. The first game was called Which Would You Rather? So imagine. Which would you rather? Lick a street after a Parade or eat a toothpick? That’s the game. Which would you rather? Just worse and worse and worse. And then the other game was called. Does this hurt? Does this hurt? Does this hurt? Does this hurt? So we finally get there. Husband drops us off, goes to town, and then we walk in, and there is this beautiful stately stone fireplace, empty and clean and just calling for something to be ignited. But we didn’t have any wood, and I didn’t have any knowledge. And so we texted the firewood guy. He showed up real fast. His name was Charlie, and he had the outfit of a lumberjack and the chillitude of a surfer, and he was a cool dude. And he said, It’s all about the layers, Juliet. He said, you need newspaper over the grate. You need something dry and crunchy, like pine cones or pine needles. And then if you really want to go to town, you have two types of wood. You have soft wood, because that will catch fast, and you have hard wood, because that will burn long. And so I said, okay. So we began to compile this dense stack of every fuel source known to man, but without the knowledge that he forgot to tell us about one critical ingredient, and that was space in between the stuff. And so we threw matches at it. We threw matches at it. Finally, husband came back. He looked at this thing, this charred thing in the fireplace, and he laughed. And then he redesigned that stack, and he teepeeed the wood, and he crumpled the newspaper, and he flicked one match at the pile, and it was roaring. And that is because it is the space in between combustibles that draws a spark into a flame. And what I have learned in my entire career is that people are the same and that work teams are the same and that ideas are the same. You start with a spark, but if you don’t have the room, the margin, the space, the oxygen around it, that spark will never, ever, ever ignite. And so the leaders that are listening now, they have their own spark. And the people that work for them, every one of them, wakes up in the morning hopeful to contribute, hopeful to touch meaning and purpose and ease in the course of their work. Every one of them does. But it’s extinguished by that avalanche. I talked about, and I interviewed so many people for this book. There was a woman named Mindy. We call her the peanut butter manager. And we call her this because she works all day with a jar of peanut butter on her desk. Because when she got promoted, her rock and roll busy day crossed over some other kind of line and just became maniacal, and she just gave up lunch. So there she is, shoveling in extra crunchy to get through the day. Another gentleman named Pete was one of the most interesting people that I talked to. He was an EMT, and his job was to teach other EMTs how to manage stress by doing what they call stress inoculation exercises. And so they would take these folks through terrifying false scenarios, preparing for the real thing. Now, this powerfully, protected man, he had a day job for a corporate company, and it got sold. And he got saddled with an unforgiving boss who sent him 200 emails a day and expected answers to those emails in the middle of the night. Well, long story short, Pete, the stress teacher, ended up in the Er with trouble breathing from the stress of it.

Mark Cole:

Wow.

Juliet Funt:

And this lurks underneath everything that we do. Now, you have to look at the last three years, which are fascinating. I’ve been teaching this work for 24 years, so we’ve been over committed, overwhelmed, and over it for a long time. But pandemic three years ago, everybody soldiers up. We’re troopers. We’re going to dig in. We’re going to abandon boundaries. We’re going to work harder. And they did. And they did. 11 hours of zoom calls for months and months and months and months. Then they were so bored, they started using work as recreation and filling. And when you finish Netflix, I guess I’ll go back to work. Right? More and more and more. And then we flip them into hybrid. And we tortured them by not knowing if they woke up on a Monday. Is it pajamas on a Tuesday, is it pants? Or just people not having any idea what was up or down. And now we’re in a recession. Fear, posture, waiting, budget cuts, layoffs. People can’t get a break. People can’t get a break. And what they need is a little bit of space. So this metaphor we take to work through all of our work and the way that we talk about the space is we call it white space. And the reason that that space that you need in the day is called white space is because it came from when I’d coach executives in the old days and we would open up their paper planners. And what were you looking for? You were looking for white for space on the page that was unencumbered. Time without assignment, time at liberty. And I’ll tell you two more things and then we can flip to some questions. The first one is when a workplace installs white space, when you make a corporate decision that this will be a norm in your organization, you teach people how to get it. It benefits both sides of the house. And nobody ever gets this. Everyone knows it would benefit the people because they could breathe and they could recover and they could take a break for a second. They could be humane. They know it benefits the people. They don’t realize how much it benefits the bosses. Because innovation and strategy and winning the war for talent and all of the things you care about in building an agile team also require time without assignment. So you get both of those two things cooking and your organization and its performance begins to soar and so. I’ll give you one tool that will kick us off. It’s the same tool I taught your leadership team two days ago. And then we’ll be into. We can talk about anything you want. But I want to teach the wedge as the last piece of this little monologue here. Because the wedge is the emergency starter kit for adding white space into your day. Here’s what it is. It’s just for those of you watching the YouTube. You can see my hands are up like a wedge, pointed fingers together. It’s a wedge of time. And you insert it into two things that previously had been connected. Pushing in, opening and oxygenating. And pushing in and opening and oxygenating. So between finishing one project and when you pick up the next, or between a meeting and a meeting, or between a question and an answer, or between driving in your driveway and walking and you’re just inserting these little sips of time and things begin to open up and you have a little oxygen. And that’s where we begin. And once you have the wedge, you’re off to the races. Just to give you a little sense of the things I care about the most, I know that we’re going to talk about a lot, but I would say that that’s a pretty good summary of what we care the most about oxygenating. People all over the world so that work can be a pleasure.

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Mark Cole:

Juliet, thank you. Just like I felt when you were spent time with our team, just like I know I’ll feel on August the 14th, I want you to have more time. You and I laughed when we introduced you to the team. That what we have found out is we always have more to talk about than we have time. And when you’re talking, I feel that same way. Let me give you just one, hopefully affirmation, one compliment. I was just on the phone with John Maxwell as I was walking down to the studio to meet you here today to record and he called me. We had about 17 minutes between the drive from where he was to the drive at lunch that he’s having with a great leader down in South Florida. And he was talking and about 15 minutes in I said, John, I just need to tell you thanks for providing this wedge for us to have this conversation. It’s very important. He said, what? I said, John, you’ve got to read Juliet’s book because it’s phenomenal. About which he says, I have read it and now I know what you’re talking about. And you tell her, I love the wedge concept, it’s incredible. Let me say this, and then I’m going to get into immediate an impact that you had with our team. If you want more information on Juliet Funt and you do, trust me, you need to go to Julietfunt.com. We’ll put that in the show notes. You can find out more about her company, her speaking, but most importantly gang her book. I want you to pick up a minute to think, because not only is the wedge in there, I’m reading it. I’ll show you. The book is marking me. I always talk about that the first time that I read the book to get to make marks. The second time the book mark me. I’ve got marks all throughout the book. Julie. It’s incredible. Now let’s talk about you coming to my team the other day because you.

Juliet Funt:

Talked not intimidating at all. Not intimidating at all. Maxwell Leadership Team if you were intimidated.

Mark Cole:

I’d always be intimidated because she brought it. Gang she brought it. But Juliet, you were in there talking about the wedge, you were talking about the book, you were talking about the different patterns in the day, all the stuff that’s in the book, the podcast listeners you need to get. But one of the things you talked about is the power of no and you empowered people that to be honest with you, if you look at organizational structure and that kind of stuff we’re talking people three, four levels, whatever that means below me in the organization. And I watched them lean up saying oh yeah, I can tell the boss no if a meeting is not making sense to me, talk about the reason why I’m getting so many no’s to my meeting request that you talk to us.

Juliet Funt:

This topic gets people so worked up and it’s super duper fun to talk about because well, first of all your team is a very senior, experienced, confident group with a lot of gravitas and a lot of years in their seats and they got all red faced and nervous when we talked about saying no. That sweet gentleman with the mustache who did the role play, who came up with me, he looked like he was going to pop. But the first thing that’s important before we even talk about tactics and tools for no is to understand that no is scary at that level. If you go 2345 rungs down in an organization what the thing you don’t understand as a leader? Listening is that saying no to a simple meeting is terrifying for people even to a colleague, even to a peer because we just don’t have a lot of social conformity around that kind of boundary setting. But if you have too much work and too few humans which is the case in every organization I’ve ever been into almost you have to learn to be discerning. And what’s really fascinating is everywhere we go people want us to do special content on decision making and prioritization. Decision making and prioritization. We do a lot of consulting training coming in to help transform companies but here’s what’s so funny is decision making and prioritization are made up of boundaries but nobody likes the boundary part. Nobody likes the say no part or the cutting or the leaving on the editing floor. That’s a part of the process. So gently and carefully people need to know how to do this. We say when you need to say no, go slow. What we want to understand is that the delicacy and interpersonal risk that your gut senses when you’re saying no is not a hallucination. It’s real, it’s valid and so you need to go slow. I’d love for people usually to get what we call a nobody. And a nobody is someone that you can work through a pending important no with. Sometimes you can even say here’s the language I was thinking of sending in this email or here’s what I was going to say. How does that sound to you? Do I sound pushy, like not a team player? Or conversely, do I sound like a doormat and too groveling? Am I needing to lie. When we did the role play with your group, the first response, when I said, formulate a sentence that says no to a meeting, the first response was to lie, to say, I have something else during that time. Because it feels just absolutely implausible to say that time is just not used well in the meeting, even if I don’t have a conflict. So it’s endlessly. Rich we love giving people really specific terminology, language, sentence structure, scripts. They need to put the words in their mouth and practice it, because no is so very hard.

Mark Cole:

Well, and we really could stay our entire time on this. I’m going to move to white. We could. But Jake, our producer, I affectionately referenced Jake often because he’s such a big part of the podcast. He was like, yeah, Juliet, I already had somebody decline a meeting that I wanted to have and told me to say no because they felt empowered. So it’s working, Juliet. It’s working. Hey, let me do go to a concept. We’ve heard a lot of people I’ve heard a lot of people try to address this white space concept, but there’s a big misconception to this idea. And I want you to talk about what is the biggest misconception that leaders have about white space.

Juliet Funt [00:21:31]:

There are a lot of them. There are a lot of them. Can I give you three?

Mark Cole:

Yes. That’s even better.

Juliet Funt:

So one of them is that it’s only for rest. And that’s the first thing people think of white space. They think of a break and they think of just, I’m so worn out, I just need a moment. That is absolutely one application of a time of white space if you have five minutes or ten minutes. But the business application of unscheduled thinking time is not to be undervalued. If you’re going to be a leader, you better have some feet up, looking out the window. Time conjuring, pondering, introspecting, looking at your part in things, dreaming, visioning, strategizing, creating. And so that’s what happens in the space, too. And that leads to the second misconception, which is that it stays empty. We’re not trying to empty the mind. We’re not meditating. The analogy I use with your team is it’s like a dog that you take to the park, but you take the leash off and you hit them on the button, you say, Run. That freedom is an integral part of the white space experience. So it doesn’t stay empty. If you have a little white space or if you’re lucky enough in the way that you work to have an executive stretch of 20 or 30 minutes, you better have a pad there, because, boy, the ideas are going to flow and the to dos are going to come out. Doesn’t stay empty. And the biggest misconception that I’m leading up to, that you asked me is that it has to be any particular length of time. People feel that if you don’t have a chunk. It’s not really white space, and I kid you not, that two to 5 seconds of a wedge can begin to make a difference. If we had the time in this rich podcast, which we don’t want to waste, and we did 30 seconds, you would just pull your hair out. You couldn’t believe how long that feels. A minute, five minutes. This is my personal primary use of white space, is the interstitial lacing. After your podcast, before I go back to see what my teen boys are doing in the summer afternoon, I won’t just finish and get up. I’ll just for a second, maybe I’ll have a gratitude moment of absorbing our friendship. Maybe I’ll have a learning moment of thinking. I should have said that a little differently. Maybe I’ll have a preparatory moment to think it was a little tension with my 17 year old today. How do I want to come in on that? All of those beautiful adjusting and receiving moments of life are gone when you go minute to minute to minute.

Mark Cole:

And what I love about this and I do not want to take away any Juliet time, so I’m going to be very quick right here, podcast listeners. What I love about Juliet’s concept right here is not the length and the almost audacious suggestion that people put on us to block out all this bit of time. It is the discipline of it, it’s the consistency of it and it’s the depth of it that I love when you talk about white space, wedging and those kind of things. Now, Juliet, I want to transition to another big concept you used the other day speaking to our team. It’s a big concept in the book and it’s a concept that will help a lot of our leaders of larger companies, of larger teams. And it’s this idea of a million for 50 number. And this is research, this is stuff that you have tried, you have observed, you’ve worked with high level executives to identify in their organization. So talk to us a little bit about this concept and maybe one or two things we can begin applying as we finish up the podcast later on. What is this million for 50?

Juliet Funt:

I honestly think a million for 50 is the reason that Harper Collins wanted this book, because we have a globally unique process where we quantify busy work. And I still have now had no one ever come to me and say, oh, here’s another person that does this. But what’s really funny is that the math used to do this magical process is unbelievably simple and eight year olds can do this math. We ask a bunch of overloaded people in companies how busy they are. This is usually when we’re going in to actually teach this and change companies. We’re usually starting at about a ten to $20 million and upsize company. Although I think the topics we talk about will be relevant for whoever’s listening. Just so you know, that’s kind of more normative. We ask people, how many meetings do you sit in that feel like they’re not a good use of your time, defined as you’re not really contributing or benefiting from sitting there? What about slack? What about teams? What about IMS and emails and decks and reports? Then we take all that self reported wasteful work and we just chop it in half to be as conservative as we possibly can be in our quantification, because people like to complain and talk to outside sources and they don’t have very accurate self reporting abilities to see their time. And then we figure out what an hour is worth. It’s not rocket science. You take their salary and you add benefits and you divide it by the hours that they work. And then you can do math and you come up with this number million for 50, which means the typical company wastes in the time of their talent. A million dollars of talent time annually for every 50 people. And that is all the stuff that you’re doing. And some little intuitive whisper in your belly is saying, I should not be doing this. This does not feel valuable. But I do not know how to get off this Slack thread and I do not know how to stop this I am behavior. And you feel it. But when you do aggressively begin to reduce it, it gets more and more and more interesting because bandwidth is released. All those talented people that you fought for in the war of talent, you finally got them and you finally hired them. A third of their day right now is probably going to garbage. And if you take that out, you take that weight out of their backpack, marvelous things can happen.

Mark Cole:

Wow. Again, so much to impact. You do it well in the book. Hey, every leader feels like they have to feel their time. They have to constantly be doing. They struggle with this sense of laziness, even in the most busy proactive people. You talk about this concept called hallucinating urgency, and I want you to talk hallucinated, right, yeah, sorry. Yes, hallucinated urgency. Talk a little bit about that as it applies and something that we, as our podcast listeners can apply here.

Juliet Funt:

Oh, this is the one for people. This is the one that gets in their skin, the sense of its. Hallucinated urgency means you go into the office and everything all day long just has this flatlined, even feeling of this is urgent, and this is urgent and everything is urgent and it’s an impossible way. Talk about choicefulness, decisiveness, prioritization. No one has any idea between the teeny tiny ancillary pet peeve project of the boss to the core work, all feel similarly urgent. So to have teams begin to have conversations about this is massively freeing. That’s why this book is sold in team packets. Our courses are only. Done for teams because we’re building norms where we want everyone to say, listen, you know, if we’re all hallucinating, maybe together we could have shared language and we could walk each other back from that. So the model that we give them in this particular case is called the Three Levels of Urgency. Things can be not time sensitive, that is true, but very rarely talked about. Things can be tactically time sensitive. And this is when speed to action is actually validly tied to a business result. But then there’s this giant catch all where things can be emotionally time sensitive. And that means my anxiety or control or panic or fear or desire curiosity is bleeding over and making something seem as if it’s urgent. And leaders, this is usually us. This is usually us on a Tuesday. We get a little wild hair and we say, hey, whatever happened with the Parkview health account? And we ping some salesperson who is going to be giving us a report on that on Friday anyway. But we got curious or we got anxious and we interrupt them. This is how the urgency then replicates and spreads. And so when you know those terms and you can talk about them as a team, you can say to each other, is this really tactically time sensitive? Are we getting a little emotionally time sensitive here? And even maybe float the idea that something might be not time sensitive at all.

Mark Cole:

So I’m looking through my list and I’m going, okay, I’ve got time for one more question, then I’m going to ask you a hot seat question. Oh, fun. But before I go there, I’m looking at my list, I think I want you to talk through how to minimize distractions. So there’s so much more we could pull from. But this idea that I want to have a minute to think, but right when I sit down, I have a minute to think. Somebody knocks on the door, something happens. How do you minimize distractions so you can put that focus into thinking more proactively?

Juliet Funt:

Well, this is why remote work has been such a revolution for people, is they’re leaving the environment that is most toxic to their focus. So when you go away, even if you have white noise at a Starbucks, you don’t have anybody else. You don’t have anybody pinging and digging and knocking. So if you really, really need to do deep work and you have the ability to do it, leaving your own space I think, is still the number one best way to focus. But what you’ll find is that 41% of times that people are interrupted, they actually interrupt themselves. They’re working away and then they go, oops, I posted that thing on LinkedIn and I forgot to comment on the comments or Oops, I have to go over and check my flights for the blah, blah, blah. So what we want to do is we want to find ways to curb those impulses. And most of the impulses are digitally enabled, meaning we have a desire, but the thing that we’re craving is the dopamine of our digital airplane. Mode on your phone is a great way to do that. Or if you’re very brave and have other methods of being reached, you can turn your phone off entirely. Another version of that is I bought myself something called a light phone. I don’t have it close enough to show it to you on screen, but it is basically a dumb phone where my kids and family can reach me, but it doesn’t do anything else. It is a telephone. And so if I really, really want to write, I can go away with my light phone. And as a mom of three in the modern era, I’m not feeling irresponsible because I can’t be reached by my children or my aging 85 year old mom. But I don’t have anything else. No more toys. Freedom is another app that will help you do that. And then in terms of the behavior, a wonderful piece. I think her name is Laura Stack. She’s one of those real time management people. I’m not a time management person. We teach performance and culture, but she’s one of those real time management people. She said, something has stuck with me for 30 years is when you’re about to go and do the thing that you know you shouldn’t do when you’re going to go into a tab where you’re supposed to be writing, say very loudly inside your head, stop and just return to the thing you were doing. And as you best each one of those impulses, you’ll be training yourself to focus.

Mark Cole:

I love the intentionality you put around productivity. It’s so refreshing. It’s in a world of distraction. It’s in a world of increasing expectation, but decreasing productivity. And so what a breath of fresh air. Okay, so let’s go to a high seat question. Who is a leader that’s had a great impact on you? And what was the impact?

Juliet Funt:

Craig Rochelle would be my answer.

Mark Cole:

Yes.

Juliet Funt:

See, he comes to mind so fast. But then I’m going to get to the second half and not have a good answer, because just who he’s been in my life, it’s just the unbelievable support and visioning and love and the way he’s seen our work and lifted it up. So it’s not leadership tactics that I’m emulating, but just all of who he has been.

Mark Cole:

Hey, just saying the name Craig Rochelle, as much of a friend as he is, to John, to myself, to Maxwell leadership, that says enough. He’s impacted so many of us. Great podcasts that he has. Check it out if you haven’t. Hey, Juliet Funt. I told you, go to Julietfunt.com. You’ll be able to see all that. She’s doing what she can do for you. Pick up the book. A minute to think. And I wish you could enjoy us in Orlando live. Juliet is going to be there on August the 14th with several other incredible communicators that’s going to make you better. But we also have a virtual option. You can check it out and not get all the way down to Orlando. We’ll put that in the show notes as well, where you can be a part of it. Hey, I go back to the comment that Oliver made to me that I referenced at the beginning of the podcast. I told you all this was going to be one of my most exciting and for our podcast listeners, we do this to add value to you and I hope today has. Please, wherever you listen to us, give us a comment. Let us know how well this has impacted you. Tell us ways we can get better at impacting and adding value to you. Because we want you to be better, because the world needs better leaders. And as we say around here, everyone deserves to be led well