Executive Podcast #349: Improving Your Micromanagement

Perry Holley:
Are you spinning your wheels on low value tasks? Do you spend more time putting out fires than planning for long term goals? It’s so easy to lose yourself and your daily momentum with little tasks that take you off focus. Here’s the truth. Your time is too valuable to waste on pesky notifications, calendar invitations and missed deadlines. Just because it all has to get done doesn’t mean it needs to be done by you. That’s where our friends at Belay can help. From administration to project management, a Belay Executive Assistant can handle it all so that you can spend your time on the tasks that matter. Because the first step to leading intentionally is reclaiming your focus. If you’re looking for a practical tool to help you start leading with clearer purposes, download Belay CEO Tricia Sorrentino’s free resource the 40 Hour CEO Workweek Planning Guide.

Perry Holley:
Just text the word exec to 55123 for your free copy. That’s exec to 55123 to start accomplishing more while juggling less with.

Perry Holley:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holley of Maxwell Leadership Facilitator and Coach.

Chris Goede:
And I’m Chris Goede, Executive Vice President with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining us. Once again, we are so grateful for those that are viewing us on YouTube or listening to us wherever you follow your podcast. Thank you so much. We are grateful for that. It’s not a not a trip that Perry and I don’t go on where people talk about the the podcast and the impact on them personally or their team and so we really appreciate it. So rewarding, so rewarding.

Perry Holley:
Very kind.

Chris Goede:
It’s why we do what we do and so thank you for that. I do want to let you know we have a new URL and that is MaxwellLeadership.com/ExecutivePodcast. There is where you can go and download the Learner Guide. You can leave a question or a thought that you want Perry and I to kind of unpack on a future podcast. You want to learn more about the five levels of leadership? Please you can do all that there, submit that form and we will get back in touch with you. Well, today’s topic and I love the way that Perry has Wordsmith this it says improving your micromanagement which basically is saying that everybody does some sort of micromanagement. Although a lot of us hear that word and we immediately go, man, that’s negative. That just feels like I don’t want to go be a part of anything.

Chris Goede:
That’s. Micromanagement’s over. Controlling boss. They’re all up in your business. And so there’s another thing here that’s big that we talk about the five levels where you build trust with your team, which it’s like, well, if you’re micromanaging them, do you really trust them?

Perry Holley:
Right.

Chris Goede:
So what are we talking about here today? Like, you’re getting creative on us, and I need to know kind of the context behind this, because while. And I know where we’re going, it’s all very, very true. I want to know how you came up with this.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, it’s interesting. We thought about what I read that got me on the topic. But then. And it so happens when I’m studying on something, it’s probably like, what do you call availability bias. When I’m thinking about something, they just start showing up everywhere. I had two separate senior executive leaders on coaching calls, two different days comment to me that they, for one reason or another, they had to sit in for a leader, that one of them, they let a leader go and the senior was sitting in the junior leader’s seat till they filled it, and the other one was had. Somebody was out sick and it was kind of bad. So they sat in for them and both of them used the term.

Perry Holley:
I was embarrassed by what I didn’t know was going on in my organization with these leaders that. And I, I said, well, why, why didn’t you know? And they said, because I don’t, I don’t want to micromanage their, their professionals. I didn’t want to be in their space. I didn’t want to act like I didn’t trust them or something like that, but I didn’t know what they were doing. And now I’m embarrassed that I, I got to go fix some stuff. I went, wow. And so they didn’t use the word micromanage. That comes up in a minute.

Perry Holley:
What do you think about not knowing what’s going on in your own business? To you? Yeah. You’re forced to step in.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. I think that that is an issue. You should be very aware of what’s going on. I, I remember somebody saying to me one time, you can never not micromanage the outcomes of your business or the vision and the culture of your business. And so there are some areas that I think you are going to have to be dialed in in order to drive the proper outcome or the Proper culture of vision that you want in this example that you’re just talking about with some execs you’ve been working with. Right. It was maybe they weren’t in on the vision of what that leader they were filling in for was actually doing. Right.

Chris Goede:
Maybe the outcomes were there. And so that masked maybe some of the other things that you didn’t see. And so it’s really, maybe being in proximity of it, you know, more than micromanaging, I don’t know. It’s a delicate balance. But there are a couple things I think as leaders. Whether it’s your team, your family, or it’s an organization that you got to be dialed into and know, know what’s going on in order to make sure we’re headed in the right direction.

Perry Holley:
What spurred the thought was a new book. I’m a big Admiral William McRaven. I know you are as well. And Admiral McRaven’s got several great books out. If anything by him is great, if you can get a hold of that. But he’s a Navy SEAL leader and has risen up through the ranks. But he’s been in on some of the more well known news articles over the last 10 years or something. He was.

Perry Holley:
Teams were in some of the worst things that we’ve seen. But he had his new book called Conquering Crisis. He had the chapter called Micromanagement is not an ugly Word. And he tells a story where he was briefing his senior leader and the senior leader said, asked him some questions around how are they going to do this and how are they going to do that and what’s going to happen if this. And he goes, sir, he said he’d been reading the Harvard Business Review and the latest things about micromanagement. So I threw it out there, sir, I don’t micromanage my team. I trust them to do. I’m gonna read it.

Perry Holley:
They trust them to do their job and think they know what’s expected of them. And the commander, he said, turns and faces him, gets right up in his grill and says they know what’s expected of them. How do they know? Have you cleared exactly what you expect? Let me be clear. I want you to micromanage these guys. I want you to look into every detail of the mission. I want you to question every aspect of their plan. I want you to double check their navigation, their communication, their insertion extract, the demolition, and the escape and evasion plan. And if you think anything can be done better, you should let them know precisely how you want it done.

Perry Holley:
And then like I Said two days later, three days later, I have two executives tell me I don’t. I thought they knew what to do, but they didn’t. They. I’m embarrassed by what I don’t know.

Chris Goede:
So, yeah, and I think I love this example. And you sent me that book and you said, hey, this just came out. You need to make sure that you really good. You digest it. And so look forward to that. But what we’re talking about here is clarity around expectations. Clarity and understanding of the expectations. You and I had the privilege to be in a room several weeks ago now, and they talked about how if there’s not clarity, it leads to confusion.

Chris Goede:
And if there’s confusion, then it’s failure. And the story that you just talked about right there created all of that. Right. Potentially. Until the senior in charge there said, no, no, no, you’re going to know exactly, and it’s going to align with what you want from them. And so this is not about a kind of a trust or not trusting them. They’re in this case, extremely skilled at what they do. So it wasn’t like you didn’t trust them to complete the mission.

Chris Goede:
It is. You need to be very aware and in the know. So that. Let’s just say one of them got sick. And let’s say not saying that he would, but Admiral would had to step in. Did he. Did he know it that clearly that he could have been a part of the team and just filed right in or they have to bring somebody else in that had been briefed on the mission. So it’s around that clarity and it’s around the expectations and the communication.

Chris Goede:
And then once all that’s dialed in, like he said, once you know that, then okay, great, let them do their thing, but you better be in on the business on the front end of it.

Perry Holley:
Well, McRaven was told, be back here in two hours with the answers to all these questions. And he. When he went and got the answers, he realized there was a bit of confusion. There was a bit of they hadn’t thought through exactly the way he would have done it. Now, he’s a more seasoned senior SEAL commander. He knows things. But they are professionals. They are highly trained professionals, just like the people on your team are.

Perry Holley:
But there’s things he needed. So what it really says to me is that how can leaders ensure that their expectations are fully understood and executed on. And I personally feel like this is something you don’t ever arrive. You’re always getting better at this. But I wonder, obviously communicating clearly, concisely like you said, those are big words, but maybe get practical. Is it more than that? How? What have you seen to make sure you lead a nice sized organization? You have lots of moving parts going on, you can’t be everywhere, so you can’t really micromanage. But how do you make sure that your expectations are understood?

Chris Goede:
Yeah, I love this comment you actually put here in the notes for me, which was you talk about the why. Like let’s, let’s start with why is it that you want to know why do you want to be in the business? But then also why is it that what they’re doing is so important to the business and you kind of started from that level. The other thing is, is around communication. And we talked about this, I think it was just last week or so, maybe two weeks ago, we mentioned that oftentimes Mark will say after he has given kind of directive of what the mission is, what did you hear me say? And so I’ve begun using that. And so I’ve even one of my teammates, we have a scale where we say, hey now, on a scale of 1 to 10, how good do you feel about that? Are you clear about it? Like, give me a number. And if that number is below eight, it’s like, sit down. Like, how do we get above an 8? Right. So it’s being willing to know as a leader that you may have not communicated something the right way, you may have not cast the vision and didn’t give the right why behind that.

Chris Goede:
The other thing is, I would encourage you as you think about this, it actually made me think about the development model that we teach here in this story with the seals. Now, Admiral McRaven couldn’t go and perform right now. In this case, maybe he could have. He probably could have, but it’s the whole. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, yes, yes, yes. He probably could have. Yes.

Chris Goede:
We talk a lot about the fact that as a leader, I want to make sure that, that I know how to do it. Now, you’re not going to know how to do everything in your business, but at least you know I know how to do it. In this case, then we talk about the fact that I’m going to do it. You’re going to be with me. Like, this is my expectation. This is a simple model for some things that wouldn’t work with all. And then we talk about you’re going to do it, I’m with you, and I’m just along for the ride to make sure that we’re staying expectations are right, you’re doing it the right way, there’s clarity, and then you’re going to do it by yourself. And that’s that transition we always put on the end.

Chris Goede:
Then we want you to bring somebody with you that begins to build a succession plan for every part of your business.

Perry Holley:
Right.

Chris Goede:
So there’s a couple of different things that you could think that is very practical that you could do there. That’s not micromanaging them because you’re just trying to get them to a point. I think even in this story to where the communication was clear, the expectations were clear, and oh, by the way, the leader knows what it is and so do the people. And so when his leader came to him, he could right off just be like, this is. But he didn’t have that answer because he wasn’t in their business enough to know.

Maxwell Leadership Certified Team Advertisement:
Hey, podcast listeners, many of you listening right now would probably love the autonomy that comes with owning your own business or becoming a coach that helps other businesses succeed. Well, we have a phenomenal strategy where you are 100% in control of your own business, earning income on your own terms, and have access to the people, tools and resources you need to build a thriving leadership development business. When you become a Maxwell Leadership Certified Team member, you join a global community of entrepreneurs led by our expert team of mentors and faculty, including John C. Maxwell. You’ll also get one of the top leadership certifications in the world next to your name, giving you the boost you need to get started. Visit us online at MaxwellLeadership.com/JoinTheTeam to find out more.

Perry Holley:
I think about the. In their thinking. How, how are they thinking? And one thing, I learned this from Tim Elmore. This is going to sound so simple almost, why would you. But it’s so profound to me was there’s not micromanaging necessarily, but to make sure that, that I know how, how they see things. Are they prepared? Are they. How are they thinking? Was Tim said, learn to describe, don’t prescribe. Yeah, and we talk about this a lot when dealing with the younger generations, but my generation loves to prescribe, tell you what to do.

Perry Holley:
Here’s the prescription. Do this, then do that, then do this and that. And they just go and do. They don’t think about it. They just do what they’re told and nobody likes to be told. So Tim said, go to describe, don’t prescribe, describe what the outcome is, describe what the picture looks like, describe what and why we’re doing it, and then let the team write the prescription about how we’re going to do that. And I think this falls into McRaven’s point about, and that applies to my two senior executives was they just kind of, they just handed it off. I said, you’re empowered.

Perry Holley:
Go. And they didn’t do the handoffs like you said, watch me do it. See, let me see how you’re thinking. Let me hear what your contingencies are. What are you going to do if you get this? What are you going to do if you do that? We don’t do that. We just say you’re, you’re a trained professional. Go. And we don’t support you.

Perry Holley:
We don’t follow up. And so McRaven learned it with the seals. I think my executives are learning it. But I like that. Describe, don’t prescribe unless you know how they think.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, like, I love that. Hear how they think. The other thing, too, is, right, it’s the best idea that wins. And so you have a, an executive in this case, then you have a team. And as you’re describing, the end state, the KPI, the mission and the brains that are in the room is like, this is the why. This is what we’re going after. This is kind of initially what I’m thinking now. Let’s talk about it.

Chris Goede:
And you’re describing it. And oh, by the way, it’s going to hopefully walk out of the room with a much better idea. And by that way, that way also, both parties, both the leader and the contributors are aware of what the plan is and what the steps are. So that if in this case, Admiral was being questioned, he was in on the conversation, but he wasn’t in there, to your point, prescribing the situation. So another best practice is to provide regular feedback and check ins.

Perry Holley:
There’s that word again.

Chris Goede:
There’s that word again. We just spent the last two weeks, right, with Jeff Hatcher talking about feedback. Such good stuff. I encourage you to go back and listen to that. As leaders, sometimes we have a pattern of saying, okay, good, Perry, thanks so much. Go ahead and run with that, kind of like your executives. And then you have no idea. Like, you never, you’re never asking for any updates.

Chris Goede:
You’re not checking in, you’re not providing any type of constructive feedback because you have no idea what’s going on, progress or not. And so this is a way, if you can get into a pattern, that you can make sure that everybody’s in alignment, the standards of how you want it being done is the right way, and you can make sure that if anything comes up, you’re not surprised. By an issue. And that’s the biggest thing for me, is that I want to be able to support the team in a way that I can remove obstacles or support any issues in a matter of a minute. But the only way for me to do that is to have some idea of what’s going on. Had this happen just yesterday, as a matter of fact, one of my team members showed up, was like, we have a small problem. We have a workshop tomorrow, and the materials are not there. Okay.

Chris Goede:
But I was aware of the client. I was aware of the location. I knew it was in the funnel. We were able to talk through it. We were able to answer it. They gave me a little more context that I didn’t have at the time. But it wasn’t like I was like, what? We deliver training, and it’s where and who is the client, and when did they become a client?

Perry Holley:
You were embarrassed by what you didn’t know.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, that’s exactly right. And so I just think that this. It’s key to make sure that you’re continually checking in and giving feedback along the way. It also reminded me of a thing that we talk about here, which is, you know, if you’re not giving regular feedback and you get to the end of something, let’s say end of a quarter, maybe it’s a half a year. Unfortunately, some it’s at the end of the year and you’re given some feedback about something that happened in February, and they’re surprised about it. That’s your fault as a leader. And it’s really doing nobody good. Anybody good? It’s not doing you any good.

Chris Goede:
Leader, the organization or the individual.

Perry Holley:
Well, and I’ll let you wrap this up, but I just goes without saying, but let’s say it anyway, that you’ve got to do. We talk about it a lot, the level two work of building relationships. Do you have the. Have you earned the right to maybe micromanage a little bit, to be a little closer to what’s going on until you’re absolutely sure the team fully understands the standard of operation and the expectations you have, and they can deliver and execute on what we’ve set before them? And it doesn’t seem like micromanagement. If you have built the relationship with me at level two and that I know that you’re trying to help me, that you actually care about me, I can trust you. All of a sudden, it just looks like you’re another teammate to me, trying to make sure that we win. And I think some of us get in trouble looking like Micromanagers, because we don’t have any relationship to hang our hat on. We can’t.

Perry Holley:
They. They. He’s in my business again. No, I want you in. I love it when you come to me and say, hey, I was looking at something. What do you think about this? How have you planned for that? I know, because you’re. I. I know you’re trying to help me.

Perry Holley:
I know you care about me. I know I can trust you.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. I think as I wrap this up, what I love about this is there are some things as leaders in our business that you need to micromanage the individual itself. No, that’s not what Perry’s talking about here. Right. Like, we’re talking about everything. Not everything else, but a lot of things around it. But it’s not about micromanaging the individual. It’s about micromanaging.

Chris Goede:
As I mentioned earlier, the. The outcome of what we’re trying to get to and make sure you micromanage the culture and the vision of your organization. By doing that, you have to be in the know of what’s going on. Maybe it’s even as simple as you get daily briefs, I’m sure, like the military does or others, or weekly briefs. And hey, here’s a synopsis of what’s going on, where we’re at. Here’s the challenges. Just so that if maybe your schedule is so busy and you have so many direct reports that could be a problem, but that you get to a place to where you can’t meet with them on often, but you’re getting feedback. Right.

Chris Goede:
You’re communicating with them. And so either way, the micromanaging is a. Is is a negative word, but it’s not a negative word when it’s tied to what’s the purpose of what we’re going after. If you’re leading people by micromanaging them, that’s a different story. Perry is bringing us something a little bit different here and a spin on the micromanage, which I really like, because you need to be aware of and in your business to be able to move the needle. Things happen faster now than they ever have, and technology is changing things fast. Like, you better be aware of what’s going on on a daily basis so that you can course correct if need be, not the individuals, but the. The outcome and the vision of the company.

Perry Holley:
Fantastic. Thank you. And reminder, if you’d like to get the learner guide for this issue, if you’d like to learn more about the five levels of leadership or other offerings or our other podcasts, in our podcast family. You can do all of that at MaxwellLeadership.com/ExecutivePodcast. You can also leave us a comment or a question there. We love hearing from you and very grateful you spend this time with us. That’s all today from the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast.

Transcript created by Castmagic.