One Decision That Separates Good Leaders From Great Leaders

Mark Cole:
Hey, welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. This is our podcast that is committed to adding value to you so that you’ll multiply value to others. And, Traci, I’m so glad you’re with me today. It feels like it’s been five ever, as my daughter says. She doesn’t say forever. She says it feels like it’s been five ever. And I’m so glad you’re on today. And by the way, on to talk about a good decision that separates good leaders from great leaders.

Mark Cole:
And one of the things I love about you, Traci, just kind of as we get ready to hear from John, is the intentionality you have with your family. And every time I get on a podcast now with you, I find out that you’ve got 14 more grandchildren. So where are we right now?

Traci Morrow:
We’re at 6. And we have one more just announced on the way. So number seven is coming along the way. So far, we have three boys and three. And we just found out that a girl is breaking the ties.

Mark Cole:
As it should be.

Traci Morrow:
Four granddaughters.

Mark Cole:
As it should be. I guarantee girls should always break that tie because we have three grandsons and one granddaughter. And fortunately, she’s so good that she makes up for the other three guys. I’m just kidding. They’re all good. But, yeah, we need to tip the battle.

Traci Morrow:
I feel like sometimes, yeah, sometimes a girl, that one girl can feel like, oh, yeah, there’s three girls now and three grandsons. Yeah, your little granddaughter can feel like she totally breaks the tie.

Mark Cole:
That’s awesome. So today, podcast listeners, we’re going to be talking about a decision that literally will separate you from a good leader to a great leader. And I believe this. I happen to know what John’s getting ready to teach. And I’m just going to tell you that I do believe that this one decision will be a difference maker for your life. It certainly has been for mine. So let’s get ready. Let’s get going.

Mark Cole:
By the way, if you would love to follow along with a bonus resource that we’ve created that just kind of lets you follow John’s teaching as he’s teaching, you can go to MaxwellPodcast.com/OneDecision. There you will find some podcast episodes we’ll include in there. In fact, I’ll go ahead and tell you I’m gonna give you a resource today. I’m gonna give you access to a resource today that will change your life if you will let it. It’s called Every Day With Purpose. And we’ll put all the information about that in the show notes as well. Again, maxwellpodc, get ready. Here is John teaching on making us great leaders.

John Maxwell:
Let’s get it clear. Old people have a lot of problems. One of the problems old people have is they think they’re the last great generation. They really do. I don’t believe that. I believe that your generation can do much more than what my generation can do. But you can’t do much more because you’re the next generation. You can do much more because you make a decision to do much more.

John Maxwell:
In other words, generations don’t become greater because they’re the next generation. They become much greater because they become intentional in becoming greater. You see, every generation should do better than the previous generation because they can build off of what has been given to them. So everything that I give to you, I hope that you have. But I would hope that you would take all of that and you would build off of it and you would become better. So everything I have, I’ll give to you. It’s yours. I want you to have it.

John Maxwell:
I want you to use it. But I do also believe that you’ll become better because of it. The greatest leader I think that’s ever lived is Jesus. And hang with me just, this is huge. And when he was here, he did some pretty outstanding things. And so what did he do? He looked and said, greater things you will do. Yeah. Than what I did.

John Maxwell:
If Jesus, who was pretty awesome, would say, you and I are going to do greater things, then I think I can look at you and say, you’ll do greater things, too. So to encourage young adults, the first thing I would encourage young adults to do is just absolutely commit their life to becoming intentional in making a difference in people’s lives. When I was young, when I was in my twenties, I wrote down, I want to make a difference with people who want to make a difference. Doing something that makes a difference at a time when it makes a difference. There’s never been a better time for you to let your light shine than right now. There’s never been a time that people were hungry for hope than right now. The worst of times are the best of times for leaders. And the best leaders let their light shine the most at the darkest times.

John Maxwell:
And so when I look at where the world is today, it’s pretty tough. But when I look at you, I say, you can make a difference. You can make a difference in your life. You can make a difference in your home, you can make a difference in your community. You can make a difference in your region. You can make a difference in your country. You can make a difference in this world. You can make a difference.

John Maxwell:
So I encourage all of you today to basically say that this is your time, this is your moment. That’s why we’re here. That’s why we’re equipping you. We’re equipping you with tools and resources and relationships and opportunities. Opportunities. The best days, your best days can be the days ahead. If you really have always said, I’d like to be with people that really are committed to adding value to people and making a difference, you’re in the right place. And so I encourage you in the fact that you are at a time and a place where you could make an incredible difference.

John Maxwell:
Remember this. The darker the hour, the more the light makes a difference. And you have a. This is a Turn the light on. I have on the back of my phone a salt shaker and a light bulb because Jesus said I’m to be salt and light. And I have underneath those that salt shaker. In other words, shake the salt and turn on the light. Most people, they’d rather curse the darkness than turn on the light.

John Maxwell:
Curse the darkness. People are a dime a dozen. They wear my ears out. It doesn’t take any intelligence in your life to find a problem. Any idiot can. It takes great courage to solve the problem. We’re problem solvers. Anybody can say there’s a problem and that’s wrong and that’s bad, and that doesn’t work.

John Maxwell:
Right. Now that you’re done with that, my whole issue is, so what, what are you going to do about it? Every one of you? We all have a chance to be salt light. That is extremely exciting to me.

Mark Cole:
Hey, welcome back, everybody. As John was teaching today, I thought about my friend John Gordon. I get to do several things throughout the year with John Gordon. He wrote the book the Energy Bus, many other books. But he has a quote that I love. He says, if you think your best days are behind you, they are. If you think your best days are ahead of you, they are. In other words, it’s kind of how we view things and how we begin to drive our life around.

Mark Cole:
Best days ahead or best days behind, which is what’s going to make that reality. So, Traci, I am so glad to be digging into this content with you today.

Traci Morrow:
I am as well. And it just goes to show you, our mindset has so much to do with how our life plays out. And so I’m happy to jump right in on this. And you know, the time title says so much one decision that separates good leaders from the great ones. And so you and John are such intentional leaders. I think it would be great to just jump right in and talk about that one decision. What do you think intentionality looks like as it pertains to your life and your leadership, Mark?

Mark Cole:
Yeah. You know, where I would spend most of my time talking about my personal journey of intentionality and where I’ve seen such great results is in my personal growth and life planning. I’m just extremely intentional in that. And maybe we’ll dig into a little bit of what intentionality around that looks like. But I have traveled the world with John 26 years and I’ve never seen someone so intentional about everything as John. You know, he has a rule of five. Every day I write, every day I think every day I file. Every day I ask questions.

Mark Cole:
Every day I write re. He’s very intentional in how he develops himself as a writer, as a speaker. He’s extremely intentional to make dinnertime conversations effective, impacting and connecting. Very intentional. Wakes up in the morning. Mark, I think I got the question we’re gonna wrestle with over dinner tonight. There’s just this concept that he has that I think what John is sharing with us right here, Traci, is intentionality not only comes with a plan, it comes with how you’re gonna spend your time, and it comes with expectation. So all of the plan, the time, the expectation, but I think it also comes with an expected results.

Mark Cole:
We’re going to do this because we anticipate results is one of the biggest aspects of intentionality. Intentionality puts an expectation in a leader’s mind that we’re going to see results from this plan, this time spent, this optimistic approach to going into an idea because it’s about results, it’s about seeing impact. And I think that’s why I’ve heard John often, as he did today in today’s lesson, talk about the difference maker between good leaders and great leaders is their commitment to intentionality.

Traci Morrow:
So this brings up maybe a can of worms question.

Mark Cole:
I like it.

Traci Morrow:
So when you, when you are, when you personally, because John says that generations, you know, it’s not necessarily every generation should do better than the previous generation. And so this is a two part question. So I might ask it in two pieces or it might just come gushing out of me. But when you are growing, you said it takes time and a plan and expected results. And so with this, when you’re growing, you, you might, you said it comes all down to your life plan and your Personal growth. When you’re growing, do you have something that you’re, that you’re intentionally growing toward that you’re thinking of? Because I wonder about this, this present generation and what they are, if they are defining this new generation of leaders in their 20s, if they are able to define what they are growing towards, if they know what’s actually greater. Because it feels like they have so much static sometimes. They don’t feel like they’re growing.

Traci Morrow:
They’re building on something that’s great because they’re almost detangling what is currently thought of as great and tearing it down to. It’s terrible. So then they don’t even feel like they’re grow building on something that’s great because they’re now they’ve torn it down to something bad and they’re having to start over on what’s great. Does that make sense?

Mark Cole:
It does.

Traci Morrow:
So then it’s, it almost makes it so overwhelming for leaders today because now they have brought it down to rubble and now they’re having to start over and now they have to define what is great. And that’s an overwhelming task for a brand new leader. Is that question clear?

Mark Cole:
It is.

Traci Morrow:
Because I feel bad for those leaders a little bit.

Mark Cole:
You know, here’s where it’s. Where it’s clear to me is my daughter is spending this summer studying abroad. So she’s been to Hungary, she’s been to Germany, she’s been to Spain.

Traci Morrow:
Amazing.

Mark Cole:
I know I’m jealous and I’m now talking it out and looking for counsel on not being so jealous. I’m just kidding. She’s having an incredible time. But I’d set her down before and I said, Macy, this is going to feel different this summer than when you’re back in university and you’ve got an exam coming. This is a different experience for you. And if I could get you for five weeks of your life this summer to remove the pressure and to remove the expectation that classwork has for you. And if I could just get you to be fully you and enjoy this, I think you will get much more out of this experience abroad. Not just because you’re abroad going to some really great places, but because there’s a mindset change.

Mark Cole:
And she said, dad, I don’t know if I can do that. Every day while she was studying, I would text her and say, hey, be fully you and enjoy today. She’s got this intensity, she’s got this drive that we’re talking about. I’ve watched over this summer, I’ve watched the Intentionality of taking a different posture to learning revolutionize how much she’s enjoying learning this summer. And I tell her weekly, I go, do you think that’s because this is abroad or do you think this is because you changed your mind? She says, I really do believe it’s because I changed my mind. I said, I do too. You can take this into your next year college as well. Here’s my point in telling you that I think when John started the lesson, what a way to pick on old people.

Mark Cole:
When he started the lesson, you and I just kind of looked, went oh wait, wait, am I in that category? Where am I in the old people category? Right here. But John’s really talking about mindset right there. The people that feel like their best days are behind them and that the next generation doesn’t have a chance. They’re old in their thinking. And I love how John started that because all of us, much like I’m challenging Macy this summer, all of us can change the outcome of learning, the outcome of results, the outcome of effectiveness when we set it up from a perspective of intentionality and being intentional not only in our actions but in our thinking. And that’s what I thought. That’s what I took away not only from your question, Traci, but from John’s lesson. We’ve got to be intentional and intentionality starts with our mindset, our thinking, before it gets into our actions.

Traci Morrow:
And why I love so much that at the same time that you are taking the spending time, so much time in proximity to John, taking the baton from John and his legacy, but also fathering the next generation. And I mean I know you mentor CEOs, I know that but you’re also fathering Macy, a very young 20 something next generation of leadership seeing what’s coming way down the road. So it’s this broad span and so even if you are not a parent of someone of the same age as Mark and my kids that it’s, it’s so important that you are staying connected because it’s very easy to get disconnected as a leader and, and, and you’re losing touch with what the upcoming leadership is looking at. And I love that you’re having an impact in her mindset because young leaders need to see it’s not as bad as you think it is when you’re detangling and bringing down to rebel the previous leadership get mine the gold from what leaders of John’s generation, of our generation because I know they look at us as ancient but they, they that you know, mine the Gold young leaders of what is good in the leadership today and don’t definitely make that better. And so I thought a little follow up would be then the second part of that question is I know that you, Mark, are excited about the days to come. I know that from knowing you, our podcast knows that from hearing you speak so much as a dad, as a gpa, as a CEO, as a mentor of other leaders spanning, you know, many generations in, in the workspace. So what are some of the things that you see that are specific to the next generation of leaders? I know you touched on a little bit about, about it with Ma, about their intentionality of the up and coming leaders that you work with and see in your organization and that you mentor that you see that they are intentionally making the next generation of leadership better.

Mark Cole:
You know, one of the things, and John and I, and you, Traci, of course, we try to be very tasteful in our passion for our faith because not everybody that listens to this podcast even not only has faith, but doesn’t even share the faith that we have. And I’m going to be very respectful of that today. But I’ve got to tell you something as a person where faith has meant so much to me. I’m watching young people on college campuses all over the US and outside the US come to a greater passion and pursuit of faith. And it’s just blowing me away. I mean, I. There was about a 25, 30 year swing there to where it just became very. The pendulum swung and a lot of people were very resistant and hesitant.

Mark Cole:
And I’m watching this passion of the next generation lost in a pursuit of something bigger than themselves in a faith. And that’s just, I’m so encouraged about that. Another place that I’m very encouraged about is the intentionality on doing significant things. I mean, I get asked questions all the time about Gen Z. We can’t get them to work, we can’t figure out what matters to them. And I said, oh, just take some time and ask them what matters to them. They want their work to extend beyond themselves and extend beyond a paycheck. They’re wanting it to make a difference.

Mark Cole:
And I’m just watching both in the faith aspect and in the significance. I’m watching these kids, these young people come in and with intentionality, the questions they’re asking me in interviews now is what do we do together outside of the company that benefits the community? That’s not the bottom line. And I’m just watching these kind of tests, I’m going, oh, we are taking our next 10, 15, 20 years is going to be incredible as we have a reawakening to the idea that leadership is more about others than it is about our own acquisitions and our own ascents and our own successes. And so I’m really excited about that.

Traci Morrow:
I’m excited, too. And having a son who is Macy’s age, seeing that they aren’t just waiting until they get in this workspace, they’re doing it while they’re in college, spending their weekends, not partying, but they’re going out and serving together in the community. And I love that as well. That’s going to carry over into their. Their professional careers. Okay, so John talked about, you know, every generation doing better than the previous generation because they can build off what the previous generation has given to them, passed down to them, shown them. We have been, and I say all of us in the podcast community, in the Maxwell podcast community, we’ve been handed a treasure from John and continue to on with what he has taught us and passed on to us and continues to teach to us and pass on to us. What do you see, John Mark, as the benefits and potential pitfalls to leaders who are taking the baton to go and speak for the next leg of leader of his leadership?

Mark Cole:
Well, I think John does a whole bit. I hope many of you have heard it. If you hadn’t, I hope you’ll hear it sometime soon. John does this whole bit about people that come up to ask him say, hey, I want to do what you do. And he says, you can’t do what I do until you did what I did. And then he does this whole bit on that. We want it accelerated. We want success instantaneous.

Mark Cole:
We don’t want to have to do what everybody else has done. But the one true factor is this right here. A legacy like we are stewarding, a leadership legacy like John Maxwell has created and many other leaders out there have created. It doesn’t come with just an instant decision that you made or an excitement or potential success that you’ve had. It really comes with resiliency. It comes with consistency. It comes with disciplines that play out over time. And if I could encourage all of you to do one thing, or anyone that’s trying to carry something of importance like a legacy and take it to the next level.

Mark Cole:
A generational leader that I’m talking about talking to today, maybe a young leader’s listening in today. Don’t think it’s gonna happen overnight. Don’t think just because you were born on third base, you got a Triple. You’re gonna have to go back and you’ve got to do the work and you’ve got to demonstrate consistency. And you’re gonna have to go through some tough times to get resiliency so that you too will be extending that legacy. And so I guess to distill it down a long answer for a short question, Traci, really is this. It’s making the determination of the daily disciplines you’re going to do to make your influence last. Don’t look for the quick win.

Mark Cole:
You’ll have some, but dissect the quick win so that you don’t miss the great lesson. Because in that win, quick or not, is a lesson that will make it sustainable, repeatable and scalable. And that’s where true scalability, that’s where true significance of a legacy begins, is in the consistency of the daily disciplines. That’s why John wrote the book 21 Laws of Leadership. It gives us a pathway to daily begin to develop and apply leadership.

Traci Morrow:
I’m sure that’s so helpful for somebody to hear that there are going to be leaders, you know, that. That it’s going to be a long, long road potentially, and that there are going to be daily steps to take, that it’s not just going to be this hop jump and you’re in the suite, you know the season. It’s going to take time, it’s going to take intentionality. That’s great. He then jumps in and says the best leaders let their light shine the most in the darkest times. He talks about his salt and light. If anybody’s seen John up close, you see the back of his phone, says salt and light. He talks about having it on his plane.

Traci Morrow:
Salt and light. So it’s a great conversation starter. But what would you say that the salt and being or turning on the light looks like in. In the darkness of the world that you live in in the marketplace, Mark, for a new or existing leader today, what does that look like for you? How do you do that intentionally where you are? Because sometimes it’s not appropriate, you know, like what we just talked about. Sometimes, you know, there’s a lot of people who don’t think like you think, believe like you believe. But how do you intentionally be salt and light in the world?

Mark Cole:
Well, I hope I do well at it. What I do intentionally is I stay away from the things that separate people, the things that devalue people, the things that if you forge into that conversation, you’re going to create the haves and the have nots, the goods and the Bads, the elite and the discouraged. There is such a. A volatility to community right now in social media there’s such a volatility, it’s almost non existent in politics. In faith, there’s all this separation. My good friend Jeff Henderson been on this podcast multiple times. He wrote a book called for describe what you are for rather than what you’re against. And he’s really challenging people of faith because it’s probably one of the most.

Mark Cole:
Through the years been one of the most divisive environments has been the faith environment, telling people what they’re not good at, what they’re wrong at. So I think the idea of intentionality walk into. By the way, the name of his book is Know what yout’re for is the name of the book. I didn’t give the full title there of Jeff Henderson’s book, but the the thing that I would tell you for me in Intentionality, around being salt and like is I don’t want to curse the darkness, I just want to turn on the light. I don’t want to tell people all the things that they’ve got wrong with them. Let’s find common ground and determine what we’ve got right with us. And now it’s almost. For a long time, it’s almost been like if you don’t say something negative, you’re complicit with negativity.

Mark Cole:
If you don’t get into the argument, then they try to make your lack of a decision publicly as if that’s part of the problem. And I understand that we’ve had too long, too many people looking the other way for bad things that’s happened to other people. I get it. But if we don’t realize that now our words as leaders are going to be manipulated to make a stand against something that will demean people. People. We’re not very observant. And so as a leader and as leaders listening here, do your best to make things better and brighter. Lift people rather than pull people down.

Mark Cole:
If to prove your point you have to make somebody else look bad, you’ve got a bad point, period. If you’ve got to make somebody else look like they lost for you to be seen as the winner, you’re not in the people development game. You’re playing some game, some sport, some something with people’s lives and people’s value. And I just want to challenge all of us. The way you can become salt and light is to make people better and make a situation brighter after you’ve had time in that situation with that person

Traci Morrow:
so good, so adds on to that that we can all make a difference and that it takes courage to solve problems. And I’d love to end on that one because I think it’s a great exclamation point. There is so much noise out in social spaces. You kind of touched on that a little bit. There’s a lot of fear and anger and second guessing and division. It’s a dark hour indeed for a lot of people. And so what do you think courage looks like to you in how you live it out and what you’ve seen in John and in leadership? And how can you encourage leaders to live courageously?

Mark Cole:
I think courage comes in a lot of forms, a lot of fashions. I did a big study when John determined that his legacy was worth extending beyond his lifespan. I did a lot of study on a long ago leader in Israel for the Israelites named Joshua. And Joshua was this leader. That boy, he had such an audacious task that if you go study him, he was told, like multiple times by God, be strong and of good courage. And I think, number one, courage is needed in a life of a leader. When the task, the calling, the responsibility is bigger than that leader. If I have this, if it’s not something that feels insurmountable, if it’s not something that requires something greater than what I already know is within me, I think you have to have courage or you never will get started.

Mark Cole:
I think the concept of wanting courage, if you will, is really the ability to see something that. That, you know is impossible without a God factor, without an other people factor. I think courage is doing the right thing for the right reasons when nobody else is doing it. I look at my little grandson standing up to somebody that was bullying on the bus. And just literally, the guy was three times his size. And he just said, if you’re gonna do that, you’re gonna have to do it to both of us. And I just told him. I said, emory, that was maybe the most courageous thing I’ve ever seen you do, honey.

Mark Cole:
And so I think that you can see courage in the life of these young leaders you and I have been talking about. I think when John said that it takes great courage to solve the problem, I do. I think when there’s a problem so big that you don’t know exactly what the solution is or how you’re going to solve it, it’s never been done before. I do think it takes courage. I think it takes courage to solve problems. I think it also takes time to solve problems. I think it takes focus. I would also entertain that it takes persistence, it takes commitment to solve problems.

Mark Cole:
And when you as a leader can put intentionality in how you develop courage, how you exhibit courage, and how you extend courage to others, that’s the difference between the good leader and the great leader that we’re talking about. When you get intentional in how you take time and spend time to solve problems, focus all of these areas. Time, focus, persistence, commitment, courage, all of those takes intentionality to underpin it so that it continues beyond the moment. That is, courage is taking a project, a task and extending it beyond the moment, extending it beyond yourself. I think courage is beyond. It’s about things that are beyond my own capabilities, about my own understanding. I think that’s why John spent so much time in this lesson talking about the decision that separates good leaders from great ones. I’d love to kind of close today with a question from one of our podcast listeners, but before I do that, I want to go back to the John Gordon quote.

Mark Cole:
If you think your best days are behind you, they are. If you think your best days are ahead of you, they are. The answer the difference maker is that intentionality. We’ll put in the show notes a podcast that we did recently called Better Days Are Ahead of youf because I want all of you to see and believe and know that your best days are ahead of you. We’ll put in there the product promotion that we’re doing every day with purpose and we’ll give you a big discount on that. We’ll take 75% off of that because I want you to begin living your life with purpose. It’s going to be better in the future when you intentionally put effort into today. Kaylee is one of our podcast viewers listeners.

Mark Cole:
Kaylee sent this question in. I’m a young leader who is struggling with helping my team grow in an environment that doesn’t value growth. Kaylee, been there, done that. Here’s the question from Kaylie and Traci, I want you to answer this as well. Kaylie says, can you help me navigate a good first step plan of action? So she’s got this passion to grow. She’s got a team that she wants to grow in an environment that really doesn’t value growth. And so she says, traci, can you help me navigate a good first step or a plan of action?

Traci Morrow:
Well, for me, I just would say knowing where you see the areas where you need growth in your team, if it’s maybe trust in the team, if it’s maybe relationship culture in the team where everybody feels like they’re valued and an important part of the team. And so I would just say start with yourself, lead right where you are. From John’s book, 360 Degree Leader. I love that book. And I took my team through that when I was a small leader and nobody knew who I was, but I had a small little team and we started growing together and serving my team there. And we valued growth. Even if nobody else was valuing growth, we started valuing growth and we became a team that people started noticing. And so when we, we grew closer together, we had relationship.

Traci Morrow:
We’ve out had a culture of growth and relationship. Then other people started saying, hey, what are you guys doing? Because we started making a difference together. And so when no one else is, you can. And you start serving those across, those under and those above with the 360 degree leader book and workbook, then others will potentially start to take notice. And even if they don’t, you will be in an environment bubble yourself right where you are leading others in an environment of growth.

Mark Cole:
That’s a great answer. I can’t add anything to that, Kaylee, because Tracy did such a good job with that. Thank you, Kaylee. Thanks to all of you. Keep your questions coming, keep your comments coming. It helps us to have insight on how to make the podcast more effective. Have a great day. Go bring powerful, positive change to the world around you, because everyone deserves to be led well.

Transcript created by Castmagic.