Quiet Confidence: Leading Without the Applause

Mark Cole:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. Our podcast is committed to you. We want to add value to you today in this episode and then give you an expectation. And that expectation is you will take it and multiply value to others. Chris, I’m so glad you’re in the studio today, alive and in person, man, I love you coming up here. I know, I know. I love it. Hey, you were telling me right before we got old, you had this incredible moment with your son yesterday.

Mark Cole:
And so tell me a little bit what David did yesterday.

Chris Robinson:
Yeah, so David, you know, for those that are inside the Maxwell community, they get a chance to see David come alongside me at the IMCs. And, you know, he always wants to be behind the scenes and just kind of, he’s the one that sticks to me. I got six, but this one, he just, like, he always wants to be with me. Well, he got the opportunity to speak for about 150 people yesterday, which was awesome. You know, so we recently switched schools for him, and. And so he was going to a charter school, and then now we’ve got him in a specialized school for baseball and virtual school. So it’s kind of this hybrid. And so he got a chance to actually go and speak about making that choice because there’s a big deal inside of Florida of school choice.

Chris Robinson:
And so he was a great representation of how school choice works and us being able to choose the education platform that works for him. And so he got a chance to share his story Yesterday for about 100, 150 people, which was really neat to see.

Mark Cole:
Hey, proud papa today.

Chris Robinson:
Yeah. Come on. Absolutely.

Mark Cole:
So. So for all of you viewing the podcast, and you can get that link to YouTube at MaxwellPodcast.com/QuietConfidence. Chris is levitating today. So the proud papa in him is levitating. You know, today we’re going to talk on the podcast, you’re going to hear John talk about quiet confidence, how you can lead without the applause. And as I was thinking about you and David, the reason I want you to share that story is John. Really. If he’s helped me with anything in my leadership, helping me to lead with confidence without applause is one of the biggest lessons that he has mentored me on since I’ve been close to him, since I’ve been traveling the globe with him.

Mark Cole:
And so I’m super excited for you podcast family to hear what John’s talking about tonight. Ernest Hemingway says, you must be prepared to work always with without applause. John’s going to tell you how to do that in his lesson in just A moment. By the way, if you’d like to download the bonus resource or if you would like to watch us on YouTube, I’m going to have a couple of other things I’m going to share with you today throughout the lesson that will just continue to add value value to you throughout the week. All of that is available at MaxwellPodcast.com/QuietConfidence. Ell right, here we go. Here is John Maxwell. Get ready to build your confidence.

John Maxwell:
One of my greatest leadership hurdles to overcome was in the earlier days of my leadership, I was very much a people pleaser. I just wanted to make people happy, I just wanted to please them. I just wanted to be satisfied. And I realized very quickly that if I was ever gonna be a very good leader, I was gonna have to really overcome that. Personally, I had to swim against the grain. I had to swim upstream because it was not who I was. But I really, through a process, not quick process, but through a process of a few years, I got to understanding the fact that my increased value as a leader of those people was not making them happy. My greatest value of helping them as a leader and helping people, making people happy sometimes are not the very same thing.

John Maxwell:
And whenever you quit helping people to make them happy, you not only will not make them happy, but you also no longer can help them. So how do you make your performance? How do you keep increasing your performance and getting better and not depending upon the applause to be your feedback? Number one, value process over event. Process, by the way, never gets applause. Events do. But understand you’ll never have a great event if you haven’t done the process first. I think it was Joe Frazier who said all the workouts and training you did before you ever got into the ring shows up the night the lights come on. So if you want the event to be great, you have to understand there has to be a preceding process. Value the process.

John Maxwell:
Value the hard work and discipline of getting there more than what happens when you arrive. Now when the opposite is true and I value the event more than the process, I get lazy on the front end and then hopefully wing it on the back end and hopefully the applause kind of will bail me out. Number two, don’t take yourself seriously. People that love applause are a little bit too much into themselves. So laugh at yourself. You should. Everyone else is be self depreciating. Appreciate it when you do something stupid and talk about it because everybody else is sitting there saying he did something stupid.

John Maxwell:
Just don’t take yourself seriously. Is there anybody worse? I mean, think about people you don’t like to be around. Is there anybody worse to be around than somebody that takes themselves too serious? I mean, you can’t relax with them. I have a hard time with real serious people, you know what I’m saying? Just enjoy your life and realize you’re going to mess up. And when you mess up, tell everybody they know it already, but they like it when you know it too. You know what I’m saying? They kind of feel better about that. Process number three, don’t take shortcuts. Don’t take shortcuts.

John Maxwell:
The tendency is, when you start hearing the applause is to allow that to become your feeder, your growth indicator, instead of really doing the hard work in the back room before the event happens. I can communicate quite well, and it’s kind of a gift for me, and I could wing it very easily, but I’ve never allowed myself to do it. I’ve always said, john, you need the discipline. You need the discipline of reading. Since the age of 17, I have filed every day of my life. There have probably been a half a dozen days of my life where I was very, very sick and just didn’t get out of bed or something. I didn’t file then. There’s not been a good day of my life that I haven’t read and filed every day of my life.

John Maxwell:
So when people look at my files, they say, how can you have 1200 different subjects filed with material in them? And how can you have tens of thousands of quotes and thoughts and ideas? It’s not because I’m brilliant. It’s because every day I file and I read, read and file, read and file, read and file. It’s just a disciplined process that I do. And by the way, it’s not because I’m disciplined, this guy. It’s because I’m not smart and not smart people need to file because you can’t wing it with brilliance. So you have to borrow brilliance, you understand? So that’s why I file. It’s to make up for deficiencies in my life such as brain power and things such as that, okay? And every time I write a book, I want it to be my best book from many, many years ago. An author who’s written a lot more books and a lot better books than I do, said John, remember this.

John Maxwell:
You’re only as good as your last book, your last book. So never get lazy. When everybody starts buying your stuff, don’t assume they’re going to buy your stuff just because it’s got your name on it. Because if it’s got Your name on it and it’s not any good. It’s the last book they’ll buy. Okay, you got it. Number four. I’m talking about how to keep your performance greater than your applause.

John Maxwell:
Number four, set your standards higher than others. In other words, always give people more than they expect to receive. And let me say this, it’s a sign that you and I are in trouble. I mean, you can go to the bank on this. It’s a dependable, classic sign that you’re in trouble when someone else has to set your standards for you. In other words, when somebody else has to come around and say, okay, let me tell you something, you need to get this up higher. When somebody else has to tell you, you better improve your performance, it is a statement already on you. You ought to be setting your standards so much higher than anyone else expects out of you that they just come away a little bit amazed.

John Maxwell:
Here’s what I discovered a long time ago. When you don’t set your standards high enough, somebody will come and set them higher for you. But they’ve made a statement on you. The statement is, you’ll not improve unless somebody pushes you to improve. Nobody should ever push you to improve. You ought to push yourself to improve. You ought to push yourself to get better. You ought to set your own standards.

John Maxwell:
Shame on any of us if somebody has to come around and say, hey, John, let me tell you something, you got to kick this thing up a little bit more. A little bit more octane here. Shouldn’t happen. Pat Riley was right. He said excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.

John Maxwell:
Wow.

John Maxwell:
Donna Harrison said great leaders are never satisfied with current levels of performance. They are restlessly driven by possibilities and potential achievements. One more terrific paragraph. Set your standards high and keep them high. If you are interested in success. It’s easy to set your standards in terms of other people’s accomplishments and then let other people measure you by those standards. But the standards you set for yourself are always the more important. They should be higher than the standards anyone else would set for you.

John Maxwell:
Because in the end, you have to live with yourself and judge yourself and feel good about yourself. And the best way to do that is to live up to your highest potential. So set your standards high and keep them high, even if you think no one else is looking. Somebody out there will always notice, even if it’s just you. Boy, those are good words.

Maxwell Leadership Certified Team:
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Mark Cole:
Chris I love what John kind of stopped right there with when he said Pat Riley, he quoted Pat Riley. He said excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better. As I listen to this lesson this morning as we’re in the studio here, there was two things that I kind of really thought about as we listened. This one was the quiet confidence. One was the idea that you, you can get moral authority from the inside rather than the outside. And then the other thing was just how important it is to get away from being a people pleaser. I’ve said it often on this podcast. I’ll say it again today.

Mark Cole:
I am a recovering people pleaser. I have that tendency and still naturally knee jerk back to that response. If somebody’s not happy, if something’s not going, I question my leadership. And so I’m really excited. But John took me two places there today. One was people pleasing. The other was just this quote, quiet moral authority confidence that I’ve watched in leadership and so super excited about digging.

John Maxwell:
In this with you.

Chris Robinson:
Indeed. You know, I, I think, you know, we are absolutely cut from the same cloth and the same lineage of people pleasing. And I remember very early on it still comes out like just I just want people to be happy. I just want all things to be well. But I remember coming to the conclusion where I had over believed in somebody more than they believed in themselves and it got me in trouble. Yeah, not once, but twice, but three times. I’m going, I’m putting more on the line for these people than, you know, that than they’re willing to live up for. And so what I found myself doing now is understanding that I’m responsible to people, not for people.

Chris Robinson:
And when I made that shift, man, that helped out a lot. But yeah, my heart bleeds for people. So it’s still tough.

Mark Cole:
Yeah, yeah, I’m with you. I’m with it. Well, we might just need to stop talking and Go listen to John’s lesson again because it’s so applicable to me.

Chris Robinson:
Right, well, you know, let’s talk about the applause though, and just even the quiet confidence itself because you’ve seen applause at every level. You’ve seen it in boardrooms, you’ve seen it in arenas, I mean, massive arenas. But how would you define quiet confidence itself?

Mark Cole:
Well, let me start with the applause and what you just said and then I’ll come back and talk about quiet confidence. But I, I think when you get the applause, you get. Having the right perspective on applause is super important. And those of you in our podcast family that’s listening to episode after episode, you may have heard John tell the story. But I love John’s talk when he begins to share what he thinks when people give him a standing ovation. And many of you are too. Chris, we’re people of faith as a foundation here, but John. And so John uses that in this.

Mark Cole:
When John gets a standing ovation, he always says to himself and praise to the Lord, he says, they’re applauding the gift you gave me, not my talents that I have developed. And that concept of understanding and placing applause in the right place I think helps you get away from needing applause for your self valuation. And John didn’t really teach that today, but his perspective on why he gets standing ovations as not being something that is that he did to deserve it. It’s something that he’s stewarding and giving again. He has a faith foundation giving God credit for is a pretty astounding perspective on standing ovations, on applauses that then lets you get away from needing it so that you can get that quiet confidence. So you asked the question quite confidence, what is that? To me, I think there is a settledness in the life of a leader that when they make the decision, they don’t need the results and they don’t need approval to know they made the right decision. There is a certainty that comes from within that you have done your best, that you have utilized what you’ve been given to make the decision, to make the presentation for me. The way I have developed quiet confidence in my speaking.

Mark Cole:
You know, you’ve been with the Maxwell leadership certified team since the beginning. And I started speaking, I guess about eight years ago, nine years ago, and I just wasn’t ready for it. I didn’t want it. I needed to run companies, I didn’t want to develop the craft. I didn’t need a microphone. John was using the microphone quite well. But John began to see more and before. And he knew there was going to come a time to where I needed to be believable from stage.

Mark Cole:
And so he started me on stages with 3,000, 4,000 people, perfecting my talent, our lack thereof, let me say it that way. And I can remember about three or four years, in the first couple of years, man, I needed applause. I needed somebody to come tell me one thing that I did that helped him. Right. I can remember flipping a switch to where my preparation is. What gave me quite confidence. My confidence that I had, or my certainty that I had delivered something that was helpful gave me confidence and my ability to reflect on how I prepared, how I delivered and how the message hit, becoming my source of confidence. And all those were internal, not external.

Mark Cole:
And so still to this day, there’s times to where I get long lines of accolades and I go, yeah, you are being nice. That was not good. It was not good. Then there’s times to where I don’t get anything. And I go, I deliver today. So I think the quiet confidence comes from an internal.

Chris Robinson:
Yeah, yeah, no. And I absolutely, you know, with you there of, you’ll see a crowd go out and you’re going, man, I know that I could do this better, this better, this better. And we’re tweaking and changing that. And then there’s sometimes, which literally for me just happened the other day. We had a great delivery of a presentation and, you know, we were offering a new product and it just didn’t go anywhere. But I’m going, everything we did on the surface went well. You know, obviously we did something wrong there. But, you know, it’s one of those things where it’s.

Chris Robinson:
I was okay with it. Hey, I left it out there. And so I love that. But, you know, it really comes down to detachment of, you know, from their growth and the applause. Why do you think it’s so hard for people to detach that outcome like John does and going, hey, you know, they’re applauding the gift that I was given, not the work that I put in. Because there is some pride that comes from putting in the work.

Mark Cole:
Well, especially anybody in a service business or anybody that is there trying to make people better. You deliver a. A gadget, you deliver something, a trinket, you deliver in a lot of things, you deliver. And it really doesn’t matter the valuation or the people’s sense of value when you get it. But certainly in our world, certainly in the speaking world, certainly in leadership, period, you’re leading people so that they have better things, so that they get to a better understanding so that they can be more successful. All the different reasons and outcomes we desire from leadership, it’s all people oriented. So certainly there is a need to be aware and to be concerned with what people think about what we have delivered about our leadership, because it’s about people effectiveness. So I think there’s natural.

Mark Cole:
I think there’s a natural and justifiable reason to care, quote, unquote, about applause, about affirmation, about approval. But I think there’s also a tendency in a lot of us, the people pleasing people. I believe there’s a tendency to let our valuation rest solely on that. Not that it’s not needed, we want to be effective, but that it does not gauge how certain and how confident we are as a leader. The danger, Chris, you know this. The danger in allowing applause to be the driver of your leadership effectiveness means that you can’t be decisive in the difficult times. And what is it that John says? Oftentimes vision is not to unify people. Vision is to separate people.

Mark Cole:
And yet, if you think your vision casting has to meet everyone’s approval, you’re probably not casting a strong enough vision.

Chris Robinson:
Yep. Love it, love it, love it. Now talk to me. This. I’m gonna shift gears just a little bit here, but I want to continue to talk about the process. But for emerging leaders out there, how do they begin to fall in love with the process rather than the platform?

Mark Cole:
Yeah, I’ve got destiny, so I’ve got. I’m a people pleaser. And I’ve got destination disease. Okay. This is confession for the souls today. Okay? But I do. I have destination disease. I love getting things done.

Mark Cole:
So do you. So you’re gonna relate right here. You’re gonna add something. I’m confident, but I love accomplishing. I love getting things done. And so this propensity that I want to get things done means that the process is problematic and the destination is desirable. And yet in anything worthwhile, in anything good, the process is more important than the accomplishment, than the destination. And so the way that I deal with that, especially in this, John says, you’ll never have a great event if you don’t go through the process first.

Mark Cole:
I have to work really hard in the event process world to ensure that I get into an environment that lets me see what the wind is going to feel like. I’ve still got to feel and make the destination tangible for me to enjoy the process. I don’t know if that’s right. John didn’t touch on that. He just said, enjoy the Process. But today, today we’ll finish up this podcast recording, and then we go into a meeting talking about a big event, a different event, an exciting event that’s coming up next year called imc. For those of you that don’t know, you need to get involved. And it’s going to be in Dallas.

Mark Cole:
It’s going to be different. And so this morning I woke up really early thinking about this. I’ve got to cast the vision, I got to give 10%, then we’re going to go work on 80% of it. And I had to go in my mind and imagine what it’s going to feel like to be in a new environment. So I have to get to the destination, imagine it, to come back and enjoy the process, because I just want to get to the event. Let’s go. You’re right.

Chris Robinson:
I’m right there with you. I’m right there with you. But I love that. And going to, you know, going to the actual event or the thing or the destination and. And imagine that I find myself there often of what would look like, what would feel like, but coming back to this process. So I think when I think about the process, I’m looking, thinking more in terms of doing the work it does to get there. Meaning that if we’re getting ready to go speak at an event, do I actually want to do the work leading up to that, when the book came out, the process of actually doing the work to promote the book, when trying to get physically fit, actually doing the work every day, struggling on that one. Right.

Chris Robinson:
But falling in love with that is so difficult because oftentimes I don’t think people have the linear track of where they’re going. So we always hear that word, fall in love with the process. But in the process of what? And so I think people really need to get clear on, hey, where am I going? And what are the steps in the process that I need to be taking every single day to lead me to where I want to go?

Mark Cole:
Well, and you said something there. I think you think about John’s teaching every day. 5. The five things he does every day. Every day. I think file. Right? Ask questions and write. I just said write.

Mark Cole:
Right? Think, file. Ask questions.

Chris Robinson:
And file.

Mark Cole:
And file. Thank you. Thank you. And file. Good grief. I lost his. I think the joy in the process for those of us that are destination, get stuff done people. I think when we can put a system around the process and feel a sense of accomplishment in the system, in the process, I think that is the key, critical thing.

Mark Cole:
So John finishes His day of filing, thinking, asking questions, Right? He does all of this and he goes, I was successful today. Now the book’s not done. He’s got a long, long way to go with the book, but he wrote on the book. And so he gets a sense of a destination euphoria because the system drove the process. That’s good. That is good. But I’ve watched him do that because he’s a destination guy, too, but he. Boy, he loves him some process.

Mark Cole:
And I enjoy process better, too, when I can put a system so that I get a sense of accomplishment.

Chris Robinson:
Love that. Love that. You know, how do you balance confidence with humility so it doesn’t become ego?

Mark Cole:
Oh, I really want you to speak into this question because I think you’ve done a good job with this. You’re in demand. You’ve written a book. Now you get. You’ve got people that want you to come speak. And so I do want you to speak into that. I think that the confidence that John is talking about right here, once again, it’s a humility. It’s not an ego.

Mark Cole:
That’s why I think it’s very important that we notice it’s quiet confidence, not loud confidence, not egocentric confidence. It’s an internal certainty that whether anybody says anything to me or not, I did good. And by the way, I don’t have to tell you, I did good. Going back to mine and your analogy, just a few weeks ago, just you did an event, and that didn’t yield the results, and yet you found yourself feeling good about it. You didn’t go tell everybody, didn’t need to tell everybody. You knew internally. And I think that’s what we’re talking about. Too many times when people do something well and they have to tell everybody that they did well, they don’t have confidence.

Mark Cole:
They’ve got a insecurity, and they’re trying to overcome the insecurity by telling you how great they were and how confident they were. Because when you’re really confident, you don’t need a bullboard. You just know that, you know.

Chris Robinson:
Yeah. Well, I think for me, when I. When I look at that, balancing the confidence with humility, it really comes back to. Actually, the first time that I had a significant meeting with you was probably. Oh, my goodness, probably 2013, somewhere around that ballpark. We were at a lunch, and I got a chance to sit beside you, and I asked you, you know. You know, you get a chance to go into all these rooms with presidents, with leaders of countries and things of that nature, and I asked you, I said, well, how do you feel? Or how do you deal with that? And you said, well, Chris, you know, it’s a couple different things. He said, you know, one, you know, I feel fully confident that I belong in the room and that I go, I’m unqualified, I’m undeserving, but I’m fully confident I belong in the room.

Chris Robinson:
And those words, those words, Mark, have always sat with me, you know, and I’ve shared that story many, many times. Because again, when we get these opportunities to be in this light, to be on the stage, to be with the biggest of the biggest in the. In the world, you can start to believe that, oh, I’m somebody and you are, you know, and I am. But at the end of the day, you know, it’s about people and how we add value to people. So for me to keep that balance between humility so it doesn’t become ego, at the end of the day, I got to look go, hey, I’m a person that just wants to help people. And if I can remember that, that’s the main thing, that’s what helps me keep that in check, going. You know what, all this stuff fades as soon as you’re not in the spotlight. Nobody cares.

Chris Robinson:
And so keep the thing about people and you’ll always be satisfied.

Mark Cole:
You know, the other thing that struck me when you were talking about that, Chris, is gratitude. So I went back to in my mind when you and I talked about. About that, and then I went fast forward to where I am now, 13 years later or so, 12 years later. And I would say the confidence that I feel walking into rooms like that now, I would say it’s grown so much that I even have confidence. When I gave you that answer 12 years ago, right, I did have it. But the level of confidence that I feel walking into rooms on behalf of John, on behalf of you, on behalf of 58,000 coaches, the confidence that I have now is even more grown. But what’s not even more accelerated, what’s not changed, is the sense of overwhelming gratitude that I have of being in that room. I never lose that gratitude, of, wow, I don’t forget that 25 years ago now, nobody cared about what I said.

Mark Cole:
Nobody, not even the truck I was washing by myself in the middle of the really cared what I was thinking. And now to be in a place to where that is accelerated, I never want to lose that sense of gratitude, that sense of. Of. Of appreciation that I’m in the room, because then I think the confidence would not Be quiet. I think it would be loud. I think I would lose the credibility that I have to be in the room. Right.

John Maxwell:
Wow.

Chris Robinson:
Wow. Incredible. Incredible. So I close with this one, but what advice would you give someone right now to a leader who feels unseen? They’re doing the work, but they’re wondering if it matters, what would you say to them today?

Mark Cole:
Well, I love to unpack this. Maybe in a future podcast we will. And I want to look for those of you that watch the podcast on YouTube, I want to look you deep in the eyes and first tell you you do matter. And for those of you listening, I want you just to pause the treadmill, pause whatever you’re doing and just soak in this belief that I have in you that you do matter. Because the biggest challenge, I think for any leader, getting to their capacity, which is what I’ve committed my life to, helping people get to their capacity, their full potential, I think the greatest thing is a sense of or a lack of self worth in their confidence, in their work, in their leadership. And so if I could look each one of you in the eyes, and I am doing that with those of you watching YouTube, I would look at you deep and I’d say you matter. Your opinion matters. You are intrinsically created with value that the world around you needs, then I would say to you, how do we get that to source from the inside out, not the outside in? Because that sense of.

Mark Cole:
That sense of worth, when it is when. When you get your sense of worth from even a loved one and they have a bad day, guess where your worth goes. If you get your worth from words of affirmation, which I’m a. Words of affirmation. That’s a love language of mine. If you get that and people are preoccupied with something else and they don’t give you that. Words of affirmation. The quality of your work is not driven by the.

Mark Cole:
By what you did. It’s driven by who recognized it. And people don’t always recognize. And so if you’re in this place right now that Chris articulated in his question that you do not. You don’t feel you matter. You feel like you’re in the grind and no one’s noticing you notice. Pay attention to yourself. You’re grinding it out.

Mark Cole:
You showed up again today. For some of you, I just stopped you on the treadmill. Now get back on because it matters. You’re doing something for yourself. And the fact that you show up should be 51% of your sense of self, worth of worth, your sense of value. I Showed up again today. I came back. Hey, man.

Mark Cole:
There’s been days in my leadership, Chris, and again, you touched a really hot spot for me right here. There’s been days that I showed up on leadership, that the accomplishment was I showed up. It wasn’t that I got anything done. It wasn’t that I felt effective then. It was that I was still here. I can tell you, in the last five years, there have been days that I went, I’m still here. I’m still here. That was my sense of accomplishment.

Mark Cole:
I’m still here. I’m still showing up. And if you’re in that place today, take a moment. You’re still listening to a podcast, for goodness sake. You’re still investing in yourself. You’re still taking time. By the way, you didn’t stop at minute 15 when John was done. You listened in to Chris, and I thank you.

Mark Cole:
You’re still here. Sense that value, sense that determination, and that’ll get you to the next day and the next day and the next day. And success will show up first internally, and then it’ll show up externally. Stay the course. Hey, we got. We mentioned a little bit earlier in the show about our app. We have an app that is committed to your growth, and I want to just come back and tell you we have a video on that app that really goes along with what we’re talking about today. It’s by Jer.

Mark Cole:
It was on July 4th, and it was about embracing your unique contribution. And so, by the way, that July 4th one is coming off pretty soon. So hurry up, go get the app, download the app. We will add value to you, not just weekly like this podcast. We’ll add value to you daily. Go and check that out. Also, we just did a podcast recently called Leaving a Legitimate Leadership Legacy. We’ll put that in the show notes as well as the link to the app.

Mark Cole:
Hey, I want to close today with Delphina. She listened to the episode Leadership, when to push, pull, or be patient. By the way, incredible podcast. We’ll put that in the. Drop that in the show notes as well for you to go listen to. Here’s what Delfina said. Pushing works best in shorter burst. Pulling is a more sustained, continuous process.

Mark Cole:
Pulling is the norm. But every now and then, when we need to meet deadlines or achieve a result quickly, then we switch to pushing until we achieve the objective. And then, Delfina, you really listened well. Then she said, they said, then we go back to pulling. And then, Delphine, you ask, am I getting this right? And you are it is a balance. It’s figuring out what works best for Chris. Is it pushing? Is it pulling? When it works best, is today the day to push is the day to pull. It is a constant balance.

Mark Cole:
I’m glad you referenced that. I’m glad that made sense to you. For those of you that have not listened to that podcast, go back and listen to it today. Hey, we’ll see you next week. And until then, lead from a powerful, positive place, because everyone deserves to be led well.

Transcript created by Castmagic.