Listener Questions: Timeless Leadership In a Data-Driven Age

Mark Cole:
Position overrates leadership and influence underrates leadership. I’ve seen a lot of people with a position that had no responsibility, and yet I’ve seen people with great influence that moved and shaped a team and they had nothing but influence to show for it. Welcome back to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. I am so glad you’re here today, and I am so excited about this episode. We have invited you to submit your questions by video so that we could have a leadership conversation about your questions so that we can go multiply value to others based on the responses to your questions. And so today you’re going to meet Kyle, you’re going to meet Guy, you’re going to meet Diana and Jeremy, and you’re going to see them ask their questions by video. And then you will hear the response and be able to apply it to your own life and your own leadership. So lean in, get ready.

Mark Cole:
In fact, if you would like to ask a question on your own, you can use the link in the show notes to join our Facebook podcast community, and we’ll put a link there for you to submit your questions. I hope you’ll enjoy it. I hope you’ll learn from it. I hope you’ll give us feedback to make it better. Now, here is our very first question.

Kyle Platt:
Kyle. Hey, Maxwell Leadership family. This is Kyle Platt, and here is my question. Many leaders are embracing AI and analytics to make better data-informed decisions. As leaders become increasingly data-driven, what should leaders be investing in just as intentionally on that technology can never replace? And how do we make sure those values don’t get lost as we implement technology and technology advances? Looking forward to hearing the answers.

Mark Cole:
Thank you, Kyle. Thanks for being a listener. Thanks for watching the podcast. Boy, if every question’s like this, I’m going to need 3 weeks of preparation for such good questions. Kyle, thanks for leading us off. And I love this question both because of AI and what is artificial intelligence going to do to people, mankind, but what’s it going to do to leadership? How are we going to embrace it? and yet not replace leadership? What I would like to do, Kyle, in light of your brilliant question, I’d like to talk just a little bit about modern leadership being reshaped because of the data-driven age of AI. In fact, it’s your question, Kyle, when you gave that question right at the beginning of your video, as we become more data-driven, what should leaders invest in that technology can never replace? I’ll tell you this, technology is a tool. It’ll never be more than that.

Mark Cole:
It’s not a substitute for human element. It’s not a substitute for human connection. And it’s definitely not a substitute for human leadership. And I want to give you just a couple of points that came to mind, Kyle, as I listened to your question. Number one is the irreplaceable value of human connection. Data cannot replace connection. The ability for leaders to invest in relationship, for a leader to understand and connect at that soul level will never be replaced at AI. I don’t care how good your prompts are.

Mark Cole:
I don’t care what your challenge is as it relates to solving with AI. You’re not going to be able to replace human connection.

Mark Cole:
I thought about, Kyle, as I listened to your question, I thought about a podcast listener. I’ll leave his name out, but he was a podcast listener that was listening to this podcast 4 years ago. And as he was listening to the podcast, what we didn’t know until later is he was considering taking his life. He was considering suicide. And this podcast listener began to listen to the podcast And at that particular podcast, I finished the podcast by challenging people to join our Maxwell Certified Team members, our 63,000 now coaches. This podcast listener was so intrigued and given such an encouragement that he decided to travel all the way from Hawaii to Orlando to join the team. But really, he said, I was joining the team because that was the entrance point. I really came to this IMC.

Mark Cole:
To thank you for saving my life. I didn’t meet him until the second day of IMC. And at that second day, he said, Mark, I joined the team because you told me to on the podcast. And on the podcast, you saved my life. I was really moved. And I said, wow, that’s such an incredible story. He said, but that’s not the real story. He said, the podcast saved my life, but joining this team Gave me life.

Mark Cole:
What he was really saying is, is a podcast, it’s a wonderful tool. We hope it helps you, Kyle. We hope that it encourages many of you, but community connection is where it really begins to make a difference. Here’s my challenge for you. Are you present with your people? Are you truly listening? Are you just interpreting the analytics, the data? The second thing that came to mind, Kyle, in having timeless leadership in a data-driven age is we’ve got to build and sustain trust. See, trust is never, ever automated. You can’t use AI for trust. You can’t just do 1 or 2, 3, 2 or 3 different things and then build trust.

Mark Cole:
Analytics can track performance, but only leaders can build trust. How do you do that? You model authenticity. You’ve got to be real. You model consistency and you’ve got to give empathy. In every interaction, you got to ask this question, do I leave people feeling valued? Do I leave people feeling seen, feeling known? Do you have some weekly check-ins that you need to set? Maybe you need to focus on metrics, but you also need to focus on personal wellbeing. The third thing, Kyle, that came to my mind was we’ve got to develop the art of discernment. You’ve used AI just like I have, no doubt. I have a daily rigor to where I use AI 30 minutes or more every single morning.

Mark Cole:
Here’s what I can tell you. AI can respond to my prompt. AI can research information faster than I’d ever know. AI remembers things that I’ll never remember an hour from now. But it can’t give me discernment. See, judgment goes beyond numbers. Technology can inform, but it will never replace wisdom that comes from experience. We’ve got to invest in mentoring.

Mark Cole:
We’ve got to foster relationship. We’ve got to build intuition that will help us with decision-making. Here’s my encouragement to you. Invite your team to share not just what the data says, But what their gut is saying as well. The final point, after telling you that you need to recognize the irreplaceable value of human connection, you need to build and sustain trust, you need to develop the art of discernment. The 4th and final thing that I would give you, Kyle, is you got to protect core values. You protect core values by understanding that values drive behavior. Technology can only measure it.

Mark Cole:
You’ve got to be clear on your guiding principles, the things that make it make sense for the organization, the things that make it make sense for relationship. You’ve got to encourage open dialogue on your organization’s why. In fact, leaders, let me tell you this. As we begin to automate conversation, it’s going to be even more important for leaders to understand how to connect with her or his People. What does new technology introduce for us? But you got to then ask the next question. Does this align with our values? Is it substantial to our core values? Today, as I kind of close, Kyle, and recognize not only your great question, but I recognize the responsibility that you and I have as leaders is we’ve got to hold technology and humanity together. Kyle Plett asked how to preserve values as technology advances. And the answer is this, it lies in the intentionality, how we use technology to advance, but we continue to have the humanity and the soul connection, the trust commitment that leaders ensure as they keep leadership and the soul of leadership vibrant.

Mark Cole:
Here’s my action for you today. As you invest in data, as you commit to AI, double down on the things that only humans can bring: relationship, trust, discernment, values, purpose, and an incessant commitment to growth. Let technology do what it does best so that your leadership can do what only it can do: transform lives. Thanks, Kyle. What a way to start us off. All right, let’s get ready. Here we have another podcast viewer, podcast listener, Guy. Here’s Guy’s question.

Guy:
Hi, Maxwell family. I’m Guy. Here’s my question. Why do leaders keep trying to solve people problems by avoiding people? I had a leader once tell me they preferred doing the work themselves just to avoid friction with the team. The results? There were no results. There was burnout and there was bad blood within the team. So it wasn’t a business problem. It was a people problem.

Guy:
So the question I keep bringing into my coaching sessions isn’t how do we hit numbers? It’s how do we help leaders lead the people who can get them there? Thank you. God bless.

Mark Cole:
Guy, what a great question. I mean, that right there is the essence of leadership, isn’t it? In fact, John makes a statement all the time. He says, everything rises and falls on leadership. Well, I believe everything rises and falls on relationship. Leadership rises, it falls on relationship. And so when you said you’re not trying to solve a number problem, you’re trying to solve a people problem, Welcome to leadership. And you’re exactly right, Guy. There are leaders that often try to retreat.

Mark Cole:
There’s also the leaders that they try to power up on people to get them to see their way. They become dictatorial. In fact, when they meet resistance, they become even more arrogant or more self-contained. But today, Guy, I love your question because too often leaders go absent. We’ve heard the statement silently quitting since COVID And I will tell you, leaders have been silently quitting for years before COVID Why? Because they don’t know how to face resistance. They don’t know how to face people that won’t respond the way they want them to respond. See, number one, Guy, leaders must face problems head on. Not avoid them.

Mark Cole:
We have a statement around here at Maxwell Leadership. We will have upfront conversations that give upfront expectations. And one of those upfront conversations that lead to expectations is we will have difficult conversations. We ingrain it into our teaching. You as a leader must expect and lean toward upfront difficult conversations. See, I believe that avoidance leads to burnout. And so number 2, I would tell you, you have got to hit it head on so that you don’t burn out and damage your team relationships. There is a tendency in leaders to either power up on people or distance themselves from people.

Mark Cole:
But the best leaders and the most sustainable leaders, the leaders that stay away from burnout, They’re the leaders that actually lean into the challenges.

Mark Cole:
Why?

Mark Cole:
Because they like challenges? Not necessarily. Because they want to be right? Not necessarily. But because they understand the value of the people they’re leading requires of them to treat them with respect, dignity, and value. The third thing that I see happen often when leaders lean away is they create more business problems That they did not have because of the people. See, people problems are always present in an organization, but unresolved people problems create a business problem that can’t be easily solved. I have discovered that business is solvable when you have engaged people on your team. And business is better because you engage people into the team. See, business is messy because people are messy.

Mark Cole:
And that’s what makes business beautiful is we get to work together. We get to improve the performance of the business by improving the performance of the people. If you don’t think that your business has problems, guess what? You have a problem because businesses have a problem in it. And if you don’t think that your people become more beautiful because of solving problems with them, then you’re going to retain and actually expand your people problems. The 4th thing that I’ll say to you, Guy, is the real leadership question is how to develop and support those who actually deliver results. Oftentimes, we allow people to sit under the radar of the problems they’re creating, and we wonder why the results of the business is underperforming. And it’s because leaders are not going after the real question, and that is, how do I make my people successful? Not how do I get more out of my people? Not how do I have problem-free people? But how do I inspire them, motivate them, and challenge them to reach their full potential? So Guy, you’re exactly right. You solve business problems by solving people problems, and you solve people problems by leaning in and being approximate and being available to those leaders, not distanced, removed, and reserved.

Mark Cole:
My question for all of us today is, what business problems do you have that can be solved by going after the people on the team? That have a challenge that if dealt with honorably, if dealt with valuing, will solve the people problem and will solve the business problem. Guy, thank you so much for bringing to light that the heart of leadership is influence and the heart of influence is a matter of valuing the people on your team. Thanks, Guy.

Mark Cole:
Thanks, team. Again, Guy, great question. Let’s go to Diana, podcast listener, podcast viewer. Diana, here’s the question.

Diana:
You have taught that leadership is influence and not position. When someone consistently leads well, adds value, and develops others, but keeps getting passed over for opportunities, how do they continue to lead with purpose and avoid becoming discouraged or resentful while waiting for the right opportunity?

Mark Cole:
Diana, thank you for your question. Number one, I’m really sorry. It bothers me when people’s value is underestimated or overlooked by the people around them. And as I was listening to your question, I imagined and remembered a few times in my career to where I felt more qualified. More ready to lead than the person that got the opportunity to lead. And again, I want you to know that being overlooked is never fun, especially when it speaks to the value of us as an individual. I do want to give you some leadership thoughts, however, Diana, because we all have it. We all have the opportunity.

Mark Cole:
to exemplify leadership in moments of being looked over. And the first thing I want to remind you is something that we all know, but position does not measure your leadership. Your position— in fact, I would say it like this, position overrates leadership and influence underrates leadership. What I mean by that is I’ve seen a lot of people with a position that had no responsibility, no accountability, and really no functionality to a leadership position that they had. And yet I’ve seen people with great influence that moved and shaped a team, and they had nothing but influence to show for it. They didn’t have position, they didn’t have pay, they didn’t have power. They just had the ability to influence. So don’t measure your leadership by your position.

Mark Cole:
Number 2, guard your attitude. I’ve watched a lot of people not get promoted, not because they weren’t capable, but because of other circumstances that they didn’t know until later. And it’s the ones that are in the hallway, not the ones that go through the door. It’s the ones that are in the hallway that I’ve watched develop themselves because they kept a good attitude. And when the opportunity came back around and the extenuating circumstances that they didn’t know anything about were eradicated, they led effectively, not because they were ready. They were ready back then. The organization wasn’t ready for them. They led effectively because they had kept a good attitude when they were left in the hallway.

Mark Cole:
And that’s what I want for you, Diana. I want you to choose— Your attitude more than you choose your position. I want you to gauge your heart more than I want you to gauge the recognition of your gifts. The third thing that I would challenge you, I’ve had to do this often, is change the scoreboard. Put up on that scoreboard what you’re doing well. And most of the time, what we do well is what nobody else sees, but just us. We know inside. Don’t allow your effectiveness to only be gauged by those around you.

Mark Cole:
In fact, let your internal perspective be your real scoreboard. The final thing that I would give you, Diana, is to actively evaluate. There are some organizations that are not interested in motivating you and tapping into your potential. They want to manipulate you and they want to use your potential. I want you to actively, actively analyze and evaluate what is going on around you. There have been oftentimes that I have guided leaders to look for another environment that’s more interested in developing them than demanding of them a set of responsibilities. Is your environment one that is Really favorable to developing the potential in you? And if not, number one, do that for the people below you, the people that’s around you, and don’t wait for the people above you. But over time, if you’re staying in an environment that will never appreciate and give you opportunity to lead, that may be an indication that you have given everything you can to that environment and that it’s now time to look for a different environment so that your leadership potential will be appreciated.

Mark Cole:
Diana, thank you. I know you can do this. Get it right, get it going. Mind your attitude. Your best days are ahead. Thanks, Diana. I hope that you’re enjoying this and hearing from your peers, our family, our podcast listeners. I certainly am enjoying hearing the questions and giving you something to think about in the questions.

Mark Cole:
All right, here’s our next one. Jeremy Miller. with his question.

Jeremy Miller:
Hello, my name is Jeremy Miller, and I’m a big fan of the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. My question is, how do you prepare to step back into a leadership role, and how do you know when you’re ready to step back into a leadership role? Several years ago, I had the opportunity to step into a leadership role, and I was really excited for it and spent time preparing for it. And then after nearly a year into the role, decided to actually step out of that role for a variety of reasons. And in the years since then, I’ve often thought about, do I want to step into a formal leadership role or pursue a formal leadership role? And what do I need to do to prepare for that? I know there’s a lot written and discussed in podcasts about stepping into your first leadership role, stepping into a lateral leadership role, stepping into more senior roles. But once you’ve been in a leadership role and you’ve stepped away from one, How do you really prepare to step into that next one, that next leadership role? And how do you know when you’re ready to pursue a leadership role once again? Thank you.

Mark Cole:
Hey, Jeremy, thank you so much for being a podcast friend. We love you like you love the podcast. We couldn’t do it without you. And your question is a really good one. It struck me personally because I remember having an opportunity to lead and cultivating my leadership and actually getting to the apex, the top of my game as a leader and losing it all. And I also remember deciding that I never wanted to lead again. I didn’t want that role. I didn’t want the pressure.

Mark Cole:
I didn’t want the responsibility. And I made a vow, Jeremy. I said, I will never lead again. I made a secondary vow. I’ll never have close, meaningful relationships again. In fact, when I joined John Maxwell’s organization 26 years ago, That was my vow. I’ll never lead again. And then over time, I did step into a role of leadership again.

Mark Cole:
It’s kind of funny. You listen to a leadership podcast, Jeremy, and you go, I think I’m supposed to lead. That’s what I felt. I was like, I’m in a leadership organization, a leadership development organization. I think I’m supposed to lead. And Jeremy, it sounds a little bit like that’s where you are, and it’s where many of us are as we step into the next level of responsibility, whether it’s the first time, Whether it’s a repeat, a return, Jeremy, like yours. And the first thing that I would tell you that I did before I ever took my leadership opportunity again is I did a lot of self-assessment and reflection. What went right the first time? What went wrong? What is different this time compared to what I had last time? I really went deep in assessing myself.

Mark Cole:
And reflecting. It wasn’t that the opportunity is what drove my decision to reenter. It was my self-assessment. It was my reflection. I would challenge you, don’t accept the role just because it’s extended. Make sure that you step into the role because you are ready. You have something different than you had last time. The second thing is you’ve got to clarify your motivation and your readiness to lead.

Mark Cole:
I’ve told the story on this podcast. My first question to myself, my first leadership book was Developing the Leader Within You. I did everything but develop the leader within me. I developed the leader around me. I developed the leader that everybody could see beyond me. And so before I would take that leadership role again at Maxwell Leadership, I clarified my motivation. Why am I wanting to lead? Oftentimes our motivation is we want advancement, we want recognition, we want compensation. It’s not because we want to make a difference.

Mark Cole:
And I’ve found the people that don’t slow down and clarify their motivation and make sure that they’re ready, they enter in again, no better off than they were the first time. Make sure you tangibly are aware of your readiness. The third thing I did was intentional preparation. I went to people that had led in that role before, and I said, what do I need to prepare for before I even accept this? Oftentimes people accept a position, a role of leadership, and do nothing to prepare and consider what needs to happen to even say yes. They just say yes because they’re so honored. They’re so privileged. They’re so blown away. It’s the moment of a lifetime.

Mark Cole:
It’s what they wanted, but they don’t slow down now that the opportunity opportunity is viable and make sure that they have intentional preparation to be ready for the opportunity. And the 4th thing that I would share with you that is incredibly important before you take that role, either the first time or go back into a leadership role, is get honest feedback and get counsel. One of the greatest things I did in my second opportunity to lead was to establish an inner circle, women and men that would speak truth to me. They would be honest with me. They would commit to me to often answer questions like, what’s it like to be on the other side of me? How well am I leading? What would you do differently? What do you wish I would have done different in that situation? And when I began to ask that question on a consistent basis, I became a better leader. I sought no feedback the first time because I knew all the answers. I today continue to seek constant feedback, feeling like I know very few of the answers. And when you can walk into a situation and say, I will never go alone in my leadership journey again, you get the opportunity of seeing blind spots because the only way you get to see blind spots is because you have somebody being honest around you.

Mark Cole:
Your final little wrinkle question, if you will, Jeremy, was how do you know you’re ready to lead? Every leadership opportunity that I’ve had at John Maxwell’s organization, and I am currently in my 10th role, people around me told me I was ready before I even knew I was ready. See, this is my own leadership journey. This doesn’t happen for everybody, but I have been a better leader when the people I was going to lead was asking for my promotion before I got the promotion. So I’d ask you the question, are the people around you ready to follow you? Are the people around you asking to follow you? Are the people around you asking for you to have an advancement? And if they are, chances are you’re ready, even if you feel ill-prepared. Jeremy, thank you for asking this question. Thanks for taking me back down memory lane. You got this, Jeremy. It’s time to lead again.

Mark Cole:
I know it is. Now do the intentional prep work before you’re given the opportunity. And when the opportunity presents itself, you will be prepared. Thanks, Jeremy. Thanks, podcast family. Hasn’t this been an incredible time of question and answers so that we could dig into what’s in your mind and introduce you to concepts and observations because of proximity to John and world-class leaders around the globe? Thanks for doing this. Give us your feedback. Let us know if this is something you want to continue doing and send those questions in, and we’ll have another episode soon of your questions and our responses.

Mark Cole:
Hey, go lead and bring powerful, positive change to the world around you because everyone deserves to be led well.