Succession: A Leader’s Lasting Value

Mark Cole:
Welcome back to another episode of Maxwell Leadership Podcast. Our goal each week with this podcast is to add value to leaders who multiply value to others. My name is Mark Cole, and today John Maxwell is bringing us a lesson. Not only that he’s going to teach well, and he’s been teaching for years, but it’s a lesson, to be honest with you, that we, we’re learning right now. We’re applying right now in John’s leadership, in my leadership. And this lesson is one that I know will help you too. Here’s the question. How can you.

Mark Cole:
How can I? How can we develop a legacy culture in our businesses or in our organizations? John’s gonna teach us today on how to do exactly that. He’s gonna teach us three Cs. He sounds a little bit like a Baptist preacher. Today he’s gonna give us three C’s in an illustration. But really, today he’s giving us that will help us become better at thinking legacy, that thinking life beyond ours. Now, after John’s lesson, my co host, Traci Morrow and I are going to give you some practical ways that you can apply what John has shared to both your life and leadership. If you would like to download the free bonus resource for this episode or watch this episode on YouTube, you can go to MaxwellPodcast.com/Forward slash, succession. Okay, get ready.

Mark Cole:
It’s time to talk about legacy. Here is John Maxwell.

John Maxwell:
So today I want to talk to you about legacy. And the title of my lesson is a leader’s lasting value is measured by succession. I think that the best thing that a leader can leave people is a legacy other people to fulfill the vision and to live out the values that that founder has. Started with Peter Drucker in the 1960s, 70s, 80s, up into the 90s, was known as the number one management guru in the world. And I remember after one of my three day sessions with a group of about 20 of us, we were wrapping it up and I remember him looking at us and saying, now leaders remember there is no success without a successor. And the most important thing you can do is leave a legacy. And I can still remember my conversation with Jack Welch, who’s a neighbor of mine here in Florida before he passed away, who was probably recognized when he was the CEO of General Electric as the greatest CEO of that day. And I remember him looking and saying to me, john, don’t put your legacy in organizations, put your legacy in people.

John Maxwell:
And it was from him that I got the term, I want to have legs for my legacy. You know, the legs are people and the legs move. And that’s what I want to do. How do we develop a legacy culture? You know, culture is all about behavior. Vision is what we see, but culture is what we do. So how do you and I develop, in our company, in our organization, on our team, how do we develop a legacy culture? To teach this, I’m gonna share with you three pictures, okay? And these three pictures will just visually help you understand what is needed in your life to have the legacy culture that you want to leave. And the first picture is the picture of a clock. And the clock, as I look at it, asks me a question.

John Maxwell:
And that question it asks me is, what are you doing? You see, we look at a clock dozens of times every day. And the reason we do that is because we have a schedule to fulfill and we got appointments to make and people to see. And so that clock kind of keeps us doing the everyday essentials. I mean, okay, at this time, I need to be there to meet with them and I need to write this afternoon at 2:00. And it keeps us on schedule. The clock is a reminder that we don’t want to let this day pass without making it a worthwhile day, and we want to prioritize our time. So when you see the picture of the clock and legacy, it’s really talking about now, today. And I know we think of legacy as the future tomorrow, but for right now, just let’s stay right in the present.

John Maxwell:
What am I doing right now at this moment to increase the legacy that I hope to have in my world? You see, today matters, and life consists of a lot of everydays doing the right thing. This is huge. Consistency is so underrated. And the reason I think that it’s not appreciated and underrated so much is it takes so long. I mean, no one ever went to work for one week and showed up every day. And at the end of Friday, somebody came up and said, hey, we have a consistency award we want to give you. You. You came to work for five straight days.

John Maxwell:
You’re amazing. No, no, no. You see, consistency is only ever rewarded on the back end. But when you think of your legacy, you’ve got to think of today, right now, because today matters. So if you want to have a great legacy tomorrow, you got to show up today. Legacy is built one day, day at a time, one day. So don’t despise the day. Utilize that day.

John Maxwell:
Well, let me give you another picture that really helps you with legacy. Helps me at least. The second picture is a picture of a compass. Now when you have the clock and you have that picture, the clock basically says, what are you doing now? But when you have a compass, the question the compass asks is, where are you going? Because when you think of a compass, people, why do they have a compass? For direction. To know exactly which path that they should take. When it comes to legacy, the statement is that people will describe your life in one sentence. And then since people are going to describe your life in one sentence, pick it. Now you see what’s amazing? When I see that compass, it reminds me that I need to be going in the right direction.

John Maxwell:
And what I need to do is I need to be picking now what I want to have people say, you know, my memorial service. You don’t want to die, and then have people show up and they’re trying to guess what you accomplished in your life. For me, my compass, my mission, my path that I take basically can be summed up in one sentence, and that is, I want to add value to leaders who multiply value to others. That’s who I am. That’s what I do. That’s what I’m committed. That’s me. Wow.

John Maxwell:
So I’ve given you two pictures of legacy. One is a clock. What are we doing right now? One is a compass. Where are we going? And the third one is companions. Who’s going with us? In other words, when I take this journey, who am I gonna take with me on this? This is huge. This is huge. So when you’re thinking of legacy, you gotta think of companions. I mean, who do I want to go with me? Who do I want to take the trip with me? In my book, the 21 Irrefutable Leadership, I talk about the law of the inner circle.

John Maxwell:
Those closest to that leader, what do they do? They determine the level of that leader’s success. Wow. And so, therefore, I developed a list of questions that I ask the people that are going to take the legacy trip with me, my inner circle. Questions such as, do they live out good values? Are their values kind of like mine? I always want to do a values test. I’m looking for values compatibility. Another question is, the people that I’m bringing on my team, as in my inner circle, do they have high influence with other people? In other words, if I bring them on, I want them to be able to influence other people so that we can lead well together. Another question I ask is, do they have a. Do they have high giftedness? Are they gifted well in the areas especially that would complete me or compliment me? In other words, do they have Gifts that I don’t have.

John Maxwell:
Can they lead well? Can they equip other people? Another question I ask is, are they just a good fit? In fact, I have my inner circle members go do something socially, individually, with somebody that we’re thinking about it just to. And then they come back and say, did you like them? You know, I don’t mean this wrong. If you. I’m 75. Do you think I just want to take a trip? I mean, at my age with people that I don’t like or that don’t have my values? So that companions question is really. It’s just really, really important. Wow. So as I wrap up my teaching session on legacy, I just want you to know that you should be preparing to hand that baton off to someone else.

John Maxwell:
And by the way, you hand the baton off at full speed. Don’t wait until you’re old and you’re no longer running fast and you’re kind of staggering over there giving that baton. Because anybody knows in a relay race, the only team that’s going to win, all of the. All of the runners pass the baton off at peak speed. That’s really, really essential. So just think of the three pictures. And as you think of those three pictures, just simply say, hey, do I have a clock in my life that just keeps me focused on the everyday essentials, which will compound each day into something big that’s important? And by the way, do I have a. Yeah.

John Maxwell:
Do I have a compass that’s going to make sure that my direction is right? And then how about my companions? Are there people that I love? Are they people that I care for? Are they people that. Wow. I look up every morning and say, hey, we get to take the journey together. So as you’re thinking of a legacy, just, hey, keep that clock, keep that compass, keep those companions. Just keep them in front of you. If you ask those three questions and you keep those three pictures, I promise you, you are going to develop a legacy that people are going to want to pick up on, follow, and help you fulfill.

Ryan Leak:
Hey, everybody. Ryan Leak here, and I’ve got some exciting news for you. Data Grow is just a few weeks away and it’s happening on March 19th in Orlando, Florida. And I cannot wait to see you there. I’ll be talking about my new book, how to Work with Comp. Complicated People. And let me tell you, this message has the power to change the way you lead and live. And it’s not just me.

Ryan Leak:
John C. Maxwell is going to be in the building. Tim Tebow, Stephanie Chong, Jesse Itzler and an amazing lineup of speakers will all be there pouring into you. But here’s the thing. Seats are filling up fast. So if you haven’t registered yet, now is the time. Don’t wait. Make the decision today to invest in your personal growth.

Ryan Leak:
I’ll see you, my friend, in Orlando, Florida, on March 19th. Let’s grow together.

Mark Cole:
Hey, welcome back, everybody. I appreciate our team that just kind of continues to put things in front of me, but I love this quote by Jim Rohn that the team gave me. Jim Rohn said, all good men and women must take responsibility to create legacies that will take the next generation to a level we could only imagine. Certainly Jim Rohn has done that for many of us. He’s certainly done that for John. He’s done that for me. John Maxwell has done that for me. Traci, you’re a business leader.

Mark Cole:
You’re a co host with me on the podcast. You co host a monthly call with John. I think it’s true for you, too. How we inspire and surround ourselves with people is literally the best thing that we can do to build a legacy and then certainly leave a legacy. So I’m super excited about today.

Traci Morrow:
I’m excited about today, too, because I think a lot of leaders, so much of us aren’t maybe thinking about succession and so starting to maybe plant this seed for some of us to think, wow, should I be thinking about this? And so let’s jump right in before we even get to those three Cs, I’ve got a few questions for you, Mark, as we process through what you are personally going through right now in your personal leadership. And so I guess if I’m listening to this right alongside of all of our friends in the audience, I’m wondering, when does a leader begin to think about succession? Is this something that you should be thinking about from day one, always having that in mind, or is that something that you should start thinking about sort of maybe at halftime or maybe when you’re five to ten years out thinking toward retirement and passing that baton?

Mark Cole:
Yeah, it’s such a good question, you know, so John and I were in an environment just in the last week of recording this podcast. It was a high capacity roundtable. So just think about high capacity when somebody like John Maxwell calls it high capacity. These were incredible women and men with a lot of potential, and some of them living out that potential. The same question was asked, John, you and Mark are doing a lot about succession. You’re doing a lot about baton passing. When did you start thinking about succession. And when did you start thinking about how to equip Mark in this idea of legacy? And John started laughing.

Mark Cole:
He said, before I even knew Mark. I started thinking about it before I ever knew him. In fact, what he said was, which was very profound. Traci, you’ve heard him say this. He said, I was thinking about succession before I had anything to succeed, before there was anything to do. He said, here’s why I call it things like work yourself out of a job, give away tasks so that you can do what only you can do. He said, all of those are succession minded things. And so every one of us should start thinking about succession today, if you haven’t already.

Mark Cole:
And it’s not necessarily the act of finding your replacement or the intention around setting the next leader up, which is the way we normally define and design succession. But succession needs to be. John talks about it in the lesson. It needs to be the things that you consistently do that is worth repeating even when you’re gone. The things that you consistently do that needs to be repeated even when you’re done. And so I think John, when he started writing books, when he started helping people achieve their success or their best version of themselves, he was thinking about succession way back then. I certainly am now thinking about succession. I’m thinking about it as a G paw.

Mark Cole:
That’s the name my grandkids call me. I’m thinking about it as a dad. What do I want to leave our kids? And you know, Traci, let me say this. Most of the time we think about succession or legacy and we write an epitaph. And I bet you many people listening to this podcast has been challenged by somebody to write your epitaph, write what you want people to say when you’re gone. Which is a morbid thought, by the way, but I’ve been through that. Yeah, but isn’t it true that when we do sit down and really do that, it’s less what we want them to say than what we want them to continue in our namesake. It’s more the character I want my kids to be than it is the way that they think about their pops, you know? And so I would just challenge all of us today, take this lesson and begin to plan out your succession by the things you’re going to consistently do day in and day out.

Traci Morrow:
Boy, it’s kind of like you’re looking at my notes and the questions that I have for you, because I do have. My next question is sort of for the person who is in the number two seat that is getting ready to come in behind the leader and step into the number one seat. I’m just curious, how do you differentiate between stepping into the legacy of what is being entrusted to you? So John passing on what he wants to be continued on in his name while also thinking about your own legacy and what you want to be carried on in your own name. So it’s two legacies that you’re carrying. So how do you. How do you differentiate between those two things and how do you carry both of those two things at the same time while trying to think about succession yourself while you are stepping in. While. Are you getting me? I do.

Traci Morrow:
Okay, let’s talk about that.

Mark Cole:
So I go back to a teaching that I do about how to become a successful second man or to be in the second chair. And so just real quick, the lesson is simply this. I became a great second chair leader when I killed my agenda and adopted John’s agenda. That’s when I truly became his second man. Now I’m a type A leader. I love and have vision and have aspirations, But I truly became a great second man when I killed my agenda and made John’s agenda my agenda. Something interesting happened over time and the agenda that I threw out to adopt John’s agenda began to surface back up. And I found over time that John’s agenda that became my agenda all of a sudden became our agenda.

Mark Cole:
And I found things that was on my original agenda that now was on our agenda. Now in succession, we’re truly in a place to where John’s agenda that became my agenda is now starting to become my agenda that’s becoming John’s agenda.

Traci Morrow:
Say that twice.

Mark Cole:
Say that twice real quick. Right. Here’s what’s interesting about that. And it’s true about legacy. If I’m really where I’m supposed to be, and I do believe that I am. No questions on that. I haven’t had questions about that in many, many years. Then John’s legacy is my legacy.

Mark Cole:
And my legacy is John’s legacy. And our legacy is a combination of what makes him unique and me unique. And so I don’t feel like as a good second chair guy that I am putting my legacy on hold so that I can extend John’s. I feel like I am fulfilling my legacy by extending John’s. Now, I don’t know that every second person, and certainly we quoted Jack Welch a little bit earlier. I’m not saying that every person has the alignment that John and I have. I think that would be ludicrous for me to say Actually, at the same time, how you are extending someone else’s legacy is your legacy. How you are working as a second person is your legacy.

Mark Cole:
How you are embracing your day to day responsibilities is your legacy. It’s not some euphoric thing that you get to a certain level of success and all of a sudden I need to start thinking about my legacy. No, there are paupers that have died with greater legacy than some of the most popular people in the world. Because it’s what you do over time that is worth repeating, that makes you have legacy. And so I would just challenge all of us. I happen to be a second chair to a very big first chair. Some of the rest of you are a first chair in a different context than how big John’s first chair is. But all of us, first chair, third chair, fifth chair, 100th chair, we are carrying our legacy with us.

Mark Cole:
We’re living that legacy out no matter what we do.

Traci Morrow:
I love that. And it’s pointing back to what John said and it’s remembering that the things that you do consistently and what you just reiterated that are the things that you want to remember, what are passed on, whether that’s whoever’s. It’s what’s worth passing down to that next generation of leaders in the organization. Okay, let’s jump to the three Cs. So he first starts out with a clock talking about what are you doing? The clock is the reminder that you don’t want this day to pass without making this a worthwhile day, that today matters. So when did you or when does a leader start, you know, letting go of that youthful mindset? You kind of answered a little bit earlier, but the shift from how far can I go to really thinking about that space of succession? And I know you said you should be doing things when you’re young, that you should be thinking in succession, but sometimes I think even when you are young and you’re figuring things out and you’re failing forward, is that really a time where you should almost be taking notes to yourself that you should be thinking because things change, maybe something that you did in the first 10 years of your career, in the last 30 years of your career, the last 10 years of a 30 year career, 40 year career, 50 year career, maybe aren’t things that, that you pull those first 10 years towards the end and pass on? So should you continually be analyzing and assessing and taking notes to yourself? How does a leader keep track of that so it can be passed down to the next generation?

Mark Cole:
You know, as you were talking and asking that question. I wish I’d have done some homework. Sorry, podcast listeners. I didn’t do my homework. The dog ate it. If I would have thought about that, I would have done the homework. And it’s a book talking about decade leadership, the decade mindset. And he’s talking about, in our lives, the 20s are all about the party and the perception.

Mark Cole:
The 30s are about settling down. The 40s is about conquering. The 50s is about maintaining. The 60s is about rejoicing, reflecting. The 70s is about resting. You know, it just goes on. And I just butchered that. So those of you that are familiar with it.

Mark Cole:
I butchered it because the dog ate my home. Okay? So sorry. But here’s what I’ll tell you. I’ve always felt like, as a leader, when I read that content, I’ve heard it taught. Always felt like I was a decade behind. I felt like that because of my twenties and just some. Just some character shortfalls that I had and how much I had to work in my 20s to become respectable. In my 30s, I always felt like I was a decade behind financially.

Mark Cole:
I felt like I was a decade behind with leadership opportunity. I just have always felt like a decade behind. Now come to find out. This book tells us that we all feel like we’re a decade behind because life’s only understood on the back end, right? So we can only make sense by looking behind us at what happens rather than in front of us. And so I think that’s a typical thing. But to your question of the clock and how we look at legacy things, I don’t think it’s ever quick enough for us to intentionally begin to craft what we want to leave our loved ones, what we want to leave our leadership assignments, and what we want to leave as a legacy. I just think we’re always behind. What I would say to that then, is, okay, now that you’ve figured out you’re behind, don’t be a behind and get going, okay? Just get going.

Mark Cole:
Because while I may be behind, I told somebody the other day, they’re just about to be 50, and they realized that they left a dream that they had in their 20s. They left it, and it never left them. And so life got heavy. Life got busy. They went and had kids, and now they’re coming back empty, nesting, realizing I never let go of that dream. And I went. And it was. It was to be a medical professional.

Mark Cole:
And I went, okay, let’s go. It’s time. And they went, it’s too late. And I went, it’s never too Late. It’s never too late. You may not make the money somebody else makes. You may not get finished with the schooling other people get through with. You may not be sought after as the expert in your field, but you can never leave the dream behind if the dream doesn’t leave you.

Mark Cole:
And so I would say that here to all of us, it’s not too late to wait on your legacy or to forget your legacy. Put the plan in place.

Traci Morrow:
Now, I love that somebody needed to hear that today. I believe many people, I think, need to hear that. I don’t think we say that enough to people. So moving on to the compass, he talks about people. Describe your life in one sentence. Do you have a legacy sentence, Mark?

Mark Cole:
Man. So I know that I want it to be. He inspired me to be more than I thought I could be. Now, that needs work. But if I had one thing, it would be to succeed at my life’s purpose. Well, my life’s purpose, as many on the podcast that are regulars know, is to motivate and inspire people to reach their full potential. Potential. So if I want to motivate and inspire people to reach their full potential, the way I would want you, Traci, to describe me, or the way that I would want Jake here in the studio to describe me as, wow.

Mark Cole:
You know what? Mark inspired me to reach a potential I didn’t know was within me. That’s what I want my daughter to say. That’s what I want my family to say. So that needs some work, no doubt. But that would be close to that sentence that I would want people to say. You know, I don’t want them to say, manny had a great work ethic. I do. I don’t want them to say, man, he worked hard.

Mark Cole:
I do. I don’t want people to say, man, he gave me a lot of money. I try to give away money. I hope people say, man, I reached another gear of success because of that guy.

Traci Morrow:
I love that. I’m curious, do you think, as we’re going through these Cs, and John is talking about thinking toward legacy and planning and the clock and the compass, does everyone have a successor?

Mark Cole:
Mark?

Traci Morrow:
Every leader.

Mark Cole:
So, yes. So everything rises and falls on leadership. Leadership is influence. Nothing more, nothing less. We leave a legacy whether we intend to or not. Maybe that’s a third statement that John needs to give, is you’re going to leave a legacy. Now, the legacy may not be a good taste, it may be a bad taste. Your legacy may be easily forgotten, which is a legacy, by the way.

Mark Cole:
So I would say that, yes, by the fact that you have been placed in a community with a stewardship responsibility to influence that community. Because everything rises and falls on leadership. Leadership is influence. Nothing more, nothing less. You will leave a legacy whether you be intentional with it or not. I do believe I know some people. This is morbid. I didn’t mean to go here, Traci, but I know some people because of my profession.

Mark Cole:
Before I started with John, which was in a nonprofit ministry. I know people that left the earth at eight or nine years of age. Gone, cancer, accident. I can still remember the impact that those kids had on me. I can still remember. I could give you three names right now of people, kids that I had to be a part of their memorial service, that I can still think of the impact they had on me. One in four years, one in six years, one in nine years. You’re leaving a legacy, and you’re leaving it on the people closest to you more than anyone else.

Mark Cole:
So that’s why John’s success principle gang is so important. What is success as defined by John? It’s when those closest to you believe and respect and love you the most. And I will just tell you, start at home, start figuring out your legacy with those closest to you, and then let it grow and build out from there.

Traci Morrow:
Yeah, I think that’s an important one for people to hear because I think we pour so much leaders, pour so much into what they do outside the home and can forget that. So thank you for reminding that. Okay, so the last C. Is, you know, the first two are really all about the logistics and thinking things through and timing and all of that. But the third one is really what legacy is, and that is people. The people you leave your legacy in. Companions who you’re going with and who you’re taking with you. And so John gives a whole list.

Traci Morrow:
And I’m sure I know that this really stuck out to you, but you can take my question or you can just trash it and go whichever way you would like to go. But I’m curious about a couple things. Number one, within this season, with such close proximity to John, do you have yet an inner circle that you’ve chosen to keep close to you? That is your personal inner, inner circle that you are pouring into. That’s like your team that you’re thinking next, like succession or is is right now because it’s not yet baton, the full baton pass that this is John’s people that you are around. And then if you wouldn’t mind, if you’re up for Answering that question, talking about the baton pass off, because I think people think about a baton pass as like in a track meet. I know I certainly do because I ran track in high school. I wasn’t super fast, but I ran this sport. But you pass the baton, it’s a momentary thing.

Traci Morrow:
You might run together for a little bit, but the baton goes from one hand to the other and it’s passed and it’s done. But in actual succession. What does the baton pass off? It’s not really like a track meet. It’s actually a process of the pass off. So if you would talk a little bit, if you’re interested in what that might look like, or just trash it all and go in the direction you want to go.

Mark Cole:
No, I love the way you’re framing questions today. So this inner circle question, first let me answer this the way that it should firstly be answered. I am absolutely in tune with the people that I need to be leaving legacy with. And it is a 18 year old University of Florida first year student. And I quit trying to leave her a legacy of cheering for the Georgia Bulldogs because I lost that one. But she is there and it’s definitely these grandkids that we’ve been incredibly blessed to be a part such a part of their life. It’s definitely my oldest daughter, it’s definitely my family. And I hope to do, because of this lesson today, I hope to do a better job of going and really being intentional, my inner circle, to your question.

Mark Cole:
So let’s talk work or calling or succession or success, whatever. Little bit. I’ve been successful at carrying that on. I absolutely have an inner circle. John Maxwell would be in my inner circle. I find that as you asked me that question, Traci, I found that that question was really. My inner circle is about extending John’s legacy, which I do believe, as I answered earlier, is my legacy. But that inner circle is really about the best transition in working to make John’s legacy extend through me and others, which will be my legacy.

Mark Cole:
But it’s really quote unquote, John’s.

Traci Morrow:
Yeah.

Mark Cole:
And I don’t. I’ve got people, Traci, you’re one that has called me on number of occasions, said, mark, I am committed to your success and you being extremely successful, you love John. You partner with John as much as you do me. But you would be one that keeps me in prayer, that keeps me in mind and keeps me in check of what I’m doing with my legacy. You’re one of those. I do have some people that I Feel very strong that they’re called to how I finish my life, not finish John’s life. That’s very important to me. And I need to do a better job being intentional with that.

Mark Cole:
And I will because of your question. There’s others that I have looked at at certain times and said, man, I need to. I need to work myself out of this responsibility or out of this job. I need to have this person up and running and making sure that it’s a good handoff in the next six months, six years, that number. And so I definitely have people that I would see from that succession handing it off. But even as you ask that question, podcast listeners, I hope that you were struck, as I am, with Traci’s question of really going deep and saying, hey, what, what do I want extended beyond my life? Who do I want to extend that? And how intentional am I in being empowering to those people that I want to carry that? You asked the next question that we could go for the next 30 minutes on.

Traci Morrow:
It’s a big one.

Mark Cole:
And that is succession being more of a transaction than it is a process or a give and take. John and I, I mentioned this earlier in this podcast recently. We were at a high capacity event and there was a lot of questions, as I mentioned earlier, about succession. And John and I have always looked at succession not as a handoff zone to hand me the baton. There’s been moments at his 75th birthday, right around when he gave this talk that we heard today live, that he handed me the baton and it was kind of this transactional moment. We called it a season of running together. The longer succession has went for John and I, the more I understand that there’s some laps in his succession that I should be running and he should stop running. There’s other laps that he needs to keep running and I need to go over and grab the water and be the water boy, because he’s still got a lot of run in him.

Mark Cole:
And I think the best successions are really understanding the mode or the way the succession is going to happen, because I don’t think it’s ever a transaction. I think it’s always almost an impartation. And I’m not trying to get mystical with my words, but a true succession is almost a spirit transfer or a DNA transfer, in my opinion. So let me explain. I think that there are successions that are immediate. They happen, and there was no intentionality on it. It just boom, it happened. I think that there are successions that are crisis oriented.

Mark Cole:
It has to Happen. Something happened. The person made a mistake, the person passed away. God forbid, just something tragic happens and boom, there was no plan. But it was already meant to be. I mean, the person was in the waiting and they just stepped right in. And so it really was a succession without any intentionality. Then again, there’s the succession that says, hey, we’re succeeding, but there’s going to be no intentionality to it.

Mark Cole:
It’s just going to be sudden. But it’s not going to be without intention. It’s just going to be sudden. By the way, I’m strong in my faith, as you all know, and I think these three biblical examples of succession are there. And for those of you that care about that, those of you that don’t care about it, go take a real quick lap and come back in 30 seconds and I’ll keep going. Those of you that really want it, it’s the succession of Joshua and Moses. Joshua and Moses planned for years for that succession. Joshua was ready as Moses faded off because Moses knew years and years that he wasn’t going to go to the promised Land.

Mark Cole:
And so he, with great intentionality, he set Joshua up. The second succession is David to Solomon. David and Solomon knew that it was Solomon, but somebody came in and tried to take over the throne, and they had to do it immediately before David was really ready. And to be honest with you, before Solomon was ready because of a crisis in the kingdom. So that one was without intentionality, but it was without. But it was very clear. And then the succession happened, and then the plan came. So the plan came with Joshua and Moses.

Mark Cole:
The plan came after the succession with David and Solomon. The third succession in Scripture is Elijah to Elisha. Everybody knew, but nobody would talk about it until after it happened. And so that was this planned succession, crisis, succession and immediate succession that’s happened. And so I have found that as you go through that, you’ve got to work together in a way that still fits with everybody playing their part. And in our story, John has got an active. For many years to come, I believe an active role in how the succession and the legacy happens in a great way.

Traci Morrow:
Interesting. Well, thank you for sharing that, because I think, especially the three versions, not just sticking to the version that’s yours, because I think some leaders might hear that and be like, oh, my gosh, is that what I have to do? And it’s not gonna be the same. So I think if you’re one of our listeners and you hearing the three different versions, it’s up to you to determine what will your succession look like so thank you for sharing that, Mark.

Mark Cole:
Yeah, for sure. And you know, I wish we had more time because I could really build that out more because I’m living it and it’s year after year living it. I do want to quote Jay. Jay listened to the podcast how to Create a Growth Environment. He said, I found the story in today’s session on how to create a growth environment very relevant to my own experience during the last couple of years. I appreciate the connection and perspective as I work toward high road leadership, Jay. That’s why we’re vulnerable. That’s why we give our stories is because of that.

Mark Cole:
Hey, I am encouraging you lately. Give us a rating on whatever podcast player you listen in on. Let us know how well we’re doing. If we’re doing well, give us a five star. It helps us. It, it drives us up to the top of ratings and rankings. And by the way, if you’ll give us a comment like Jay did today, we’ll try to acknowledge it. If you have a question, send us a question.

Mark Cole:
We’ll try to answer it here with myself or John or one of the co hosts. And then finally, if there’s something we can do better to better serve you, please let us know. Because we exist. I say this every time. We exist to bring powerful positive change to your world because everyone deserves to be led well.

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