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​Maxwell Leadership Podcast: A Better Way to Lead with Joel Manby

August 18, 2021
​Maxwell Leadership Podcast: A Better Way to Lead with Joel Manby

Sometimes, we as leaders don’t see all of the bottom line. Despite what many corporate cultures teach, there’s more to the bottom line than just the financials; there’s also the often-neglected people side of business, and that neglect shows. That neglect is also what veteran CEO Joel Manby discovered when he first stepped into leadership as a young man.

So what did Joel learn about changing cultures, and how can you and I benefit from his journey as a leader?

That’s the focus of today’s podcast—not only are we excited to share with you Joel’s philsosphy, which he made the basis of his best-selling book, Love Works: Seven Timeless Principles for Effective Leaders, we’re excited to introduce you to Joel through the eyes of John Maxwell and Mark Cole.

Three incredible leaders on one insightful—and essential—podcast!

Our BONUS resource for this episode is a worksheet for taking notes so you can capture your thoughts while you listen. You can download the worksheet by clicking “Download the Bonus Resource” below.


Mark Cole:       Hey podcast listeners, Mark Cole here. Before we get started today, I want to take just a brief moment and remind you about our live, Live to Lead event that's coming up on October the eighth in Atlanta, Georgia. We have yet another incredible lineup this year, and you will not want to miss each and every one of these incredible communicators. Be sure to head over to for more information and to get your ticket. That's L, the number two, If you can't make it live in Atlanta this year, you can join us virtually by getting your ticket at That's Live, L-I-V-E, the number two, Lead,, forward slash virtual. We'll see you there.

Hey, welcome to the John Maxwell Leadership Podcast Family. Anytime that I come to you with John Maxwell in the studio, the world has stood still. I mean, John, every time that we get to sit down, because so much of our content on the podcast is things that we've picked up from John in the recent months or years that he spoken and we come in and we really break it down. But when John shows up to the studio, we are in for a treat and that's what's true today.

So welcome. Glad that you're here. Always, always, if you hear something that you like pass the podcast along, subscribe to it, leave us a comment. It makes us better. And John, we know this comment. Thank you for having John in the studio. But not only do we have John in the studio, we have a friend of mine and John's, that you're going to know a lot more about, over the coming months and years, you're going to hear this name over and over again. Coach Joel Manby is a leader of leaders that, John, you and I have admired a lot together. So glad you're in the studio. Welcome, anything you want to say, but also welcome, Joel Manby.

John Maxwell:  Well, I'm thrilled to be here with you. I'm thrilled to be with you. I mean, I'll be here a lot more. If Mark would let me [crosstalk 00:02:16] he keeps pushing me away, but I begged to be on here because Joel is one of my favorite leaders and you're going to get a hear from him today. And when you hear him talk about his journey, you're going to understand why we're so excited about having him on the team. So, Joel, welcome, really glad to have you on the team and thrilled to have you on the podcast. And Mark, thanks for letting me come back.

Mark Cole:       Yeah. Yeah. Anytime, John, I promise you.

John Maxwell:  Thank you.

Mark Cole:       I'm really excited Joel about it because Joel is one of our newest John Maxwell enterprise teammates. He's come in. He's written a book. Some of you perhaps have heard it, Love Works, we're going to talk a little bit more about that in the podcast. Joel's led public companies, that's the senior executive, he's led privately-held companies. Joel really has led corporate culture in an incredible way. You've led me, personally. I sit here today as hopefully one of the best CEOs John's had, the jury's out on that.

John Maxwell:  The best.

Mark Cole:       The best. Okay.

John Maxwell:  No jury there. Just the best.

Mark Cole:       Before we go any further, you guys just had this moment with Shannon, your wife, and you both really like football, right?

John Maxwell:  Well, we love football. Okay, let me just talk to you for a moment. My name's John, I'm your friend and his wife, Shannon, and I love the Ohio State Buckeyes. We grew up in Ohio and Joel is a Michigan fan. And honest to God, if I would've known this, before we brought you on the team, we would have still brought you because you're so good. But we had to have a few conditions and one of them was the fact you could never, ever talk about Michigan in our presence. And so Shannon and I have just had a really good conversation. In fact, I almost brought her on the podcast so we could talk about the Ohio State Buckeyes instead of the Michigan Wolverines. Because they were talking about a rivalry and there's no rivalry. You got to win. You got to have equality for a rivalry. And what's the highest state, 17 and two?

Joel Manby:      This is starting to hurt.

John Maxwell:  [Crosstalk 00:04:19]. Anyway-

Joel Manby:      I'm losing my confidence.

John Maxwell:  No, no, you don't need to lose your confidence. You don't play for the team. Good Lord, [crosstalk 00:04:28]. You should be, you feel a little bad about your decision. I mean your decision-making to root for the Michigan Wolverines when you could do the Ohio State Buckeyes. And this isn't about that anymore, but we're just having fun in the studio and we wanted you to join us. But Joel, in spite of your lack of really understanding greatness, as far as football is concerned, outside of that, I see no weakness. Outside that I think he's got great leadership [crosstalk 00:04:56].

Joel Manby:      When he walks up to my wife and they say O-H-I-O, that's the-

John Maxwell:  It's a little-

Mark Cole:       O-H-

Shannon:          I-O.

John Maxwell:  There you go, from the studio and audience. Thank you, Shannon. If the podcast gets boring. I'll jump in and Shannon and I will O-H-I-O, I'm thinking. We may not do it again if it goes well, but if you guys don't carry the load you may hear O-H.

Shannon:          I-O.

John Maxwell:  That was a little delayed, Shannon. There's an echo in here. Seems like the building... Studio's a little bigger than we thought.

Mark Cole:       Besides liking football, Joel, you really have 25 years as the senior leader, the CEO of companies, you've got quite the leadership journey, incredibly educated, MBA at Harvard Business School, written books, stood in front of audience. You've done a lot to add value to people and I want to, officially, so this is official, not only to you Leadership Podcast listeners, I'm so glad to introduce you yet another talent. But for those of you that allow us to add value to you in your corporations, in your teams, I want to welcome you officially to the John Maxwell Enterprise Team. I am so glad you're on here. We're going to talk a lot about that in the future and how you can get connected with Joel and his content and his thinking. But Joel, just walk us through a little bit of your leadership journey. Tell us a little bit about this leader, the CEO, Joel Manby.

Joel Manby:      Well, first of all, I will do that, but I want to also thank you guys. I am so excited to be part of the team. And obviously, when I retired from SeaWorld, I wanted to look at the right next journey in my life. And I have followed John for years and I read a lot of his material. And I know from that our values are totally aligned. And the way he looks at leadership is the way I look at leadership. And I wanted to team up with somebody that had value alignment, so I appreciate. You guys even have him and I think the future is great for your organization for a lot of reasons.

As far as the leadership journey, it's been 40 years so I'll give you the four-minute version, but I think for your listeners to get a feel for who I am, it's important, but it really started as with all of us in our childhood, formative years. My father was an extremely hard worker. He was very poor. We didn't have much money. He made about 1500 bucks a year while his business was going under, but he taught me a lot about hard work and how to treat other people. And that's carried with me for a long time. But I will bifurcate those 40 years in kind of two sections. The first 20 years, which is pre-servant leadership. And the second 20 years, which is post-servant leadership.

John Maxwell:  This'll be interesting.

Joel Manby:      Well, because, unfortunately, a lot of people don't connect with you early enough for hopefully some of my teaching's later because they searched for a long time. And that was me. For the first 20 years in the auto industry, I was searching for something that I couldn't find in leaders, came out of Harvard, as you said, was with Saturn. But my big break to be a CEO was Saturn. For those of you who may remember the car company, it had a lousy car, but amazing marketing, amazing distribution network. Saab on the other hand, had a fantastic car, but really lousy marketing, really lousy distribution network. Saab executives wanted a Saturn person so they promoted me to be CEO at only 34, which in the GM system is very young and that big of a company.

But my point in all that is I had, as you have said, I had commercial success as a CEO, but all that time, that whole 20-year period, I had this angst in my soul, that there had to be a better way to lead, even though I was commercially successful and it kind of hit the wall so to speak and transitioned. When I went from Saab to run an Amazon startup called Greenlight, we sold cars on Amazon back in 1999. You could click and buy your car, but we melted down because of implosion and we were forced to sell the company because we were running out of cash.

And it was my first, I would call failure in business. Even though a lot of it was timing-oriented, but it exposed the fact that I wasn't really loving leadership because I wasn't focused on other people. I was focused on my own career. And thank God, thank the stars that I was called at that moment and become my depth of despair at Greenlight to come to Herschend Entertainment. And it's a theme park company that you guys may not have heard of it, but you have heard of Dolly Parton? And we run of all a Dolly Parton's parks, Harlem, Globe Trotters, our company's brands.

But the main point of that is that transformed my life. That's where I was taught servant leadership. I was taught how you must pour into others and Jack and Pete and I together put this vernacular of the seven words of love of how to lead a business, which led to Love Works. And ever since then, I knew that was my calling, is to help other leaders understand servant leadership.

The reason, I should finish out after Herschend, I did, was recruited to go to SeaWorld and SeaWorld Entertainment had a lot of issues. But I wanted to take Love to a public company, kind of to a bigger venue. [Crosstalk 00:10:20], stage, right? And so that is how I ended my career and retire there in 2018. But I want to focus my time and energy on teaching people, how to love and leadership and servant leadership. And that's where my heart, my passion is.

John Maxwell:  Do you mind? I've got to jump in here. Because Joey says something that's very interesting to me. You talked about the fact that for the first 20 years you were leading, but you knew something was missing. And then when you went to the-

Joel Manby:      Herschend.

John Maxwell:  Yeah. Entertainment, you found it. So I'm going to assume that they had maybe a servanthood culture and you walked into it and you said, "Oh, this is what I've been missing?"

Joel Manby:      Yeah. It's exactly, yeah. I'd love to... Thanks, that's a great question. In the auto world, it is a fear-based culture. It's autocratic. And it's basically, if you don't hit your financial numbers, you're out. As you know, there's a lot of reasons, sometimes that happens. At Herschend, in contrast, it was led by two brothers, Jack and Pete, and they ran it like a family business and it was all about loving and caring about their employees, but it also created great success on the bottom line, as well, they go hand in hand. What I feel I brought to the table, Jack and Pete, as you have often seen in small family businesses, the culture worked where they were. But as they acquired other companies, the culture fell apart. So they had 12 properties, 11 of them weren't strong. The one where they were, was strong, they asked me to put a vernacular together that captured their family culture.

And so we not only defined it, but then we taught it, we reinforced it, we rewarded it. And so eventually, John, what was really exciting, the other 11 properties, according to the numbers of kind of people's scores and basically their engagement level, those divisions outpaced and outscored where Jack and Pete were because we built the culture so strong together. So that's what happened. And it takes three years plus to turn a culture around, but there's a very specific process to do so.

John Maxwell:  And I love it because you know that process. Mark, what's really going to be exciting about Joel is that he's going to help us on the corporate side to develop that culture. Because I think there are so many organizations, they'd love to have that sense of family in a business. And yet same time, do good on the bottom line, but they've just never had anybody kind of show the way.

Joel Manby:      That is so right, John. It took me 20 years to finally find someone who really modeled it. And I listened. Part of the reason I had this angst is I was listening to you speak and write, read your books, but one thing I wasn't with you and learning it from you, I needed to be with Jack and Pete and kind of see it, that it could work. I had confidence that it could work now.

John Maxwell:  So when you got into the culture, it kind of all came together for you. Now, you're seeing it, you're experiencing it, it's around you. And you say, "Oh, okay, I got it." If you can do that, if you can bring that to other companies that want The John Maxwell Company to help them, don't you think fast forward them into developing the culture of servanthood and family that they want to have?

Joel Manby:      There's no doubt about it. You have to be purposeful and there has to be a process behind it. And unfortunately, and according to research like Gallup, only about 10% of all companies go through the full process. A hundred percent of them put values up on a wall, we call it a plaque problem, right? Just put the plaque [crosstalk 00:14:05]. It is a plaque problem, but it is a process and unfortunately, most companies and most leaders don't know how to do it.

Mark Cole:       And what's interesting, and by the way, being a podcast listener, being in the family has some privileges because you won't have seen this anywhere. You're hearing it here first. We have created an Executive Circle that Joel is going to host. He is going to be a part of taking people on a 12-month journey, a small group, in fact, if you're listening to the podcast and you're a leader that wants to lead with this principle and be mentored by Joel. John, we started an executive circle several years ago.

John Maxwell:  We did.

Mark Cole:       And now with Joel, we're going to take you through a 12-month process, a system, like you said, a way to really systematically inspire your culture to work through love, through servanthood. By the way, if you're listening, you can go get more information on that right now. If you will go to, john, you can get more information there. And that's just one of the many ways. Joel, we're going to bring you and what you and John have spent your lives working on to add value to people. I'm so excited about the Executive Circle. I truly am.

John Maxwell:  I am too. We had the Executive Circle and honestly, Mark, you know this.

Mark Cole:       Yup.

John Maxwell:  It was my favorite growth tool. When people said, "John, how do you grow?" My first thing was the Executive Circle because we were getting exposure to these CEOs, which they were giving us best practices and then we could ask some leadership questions and it was just every month, I thought I just learned something that's going to help me so much better. And for Joel to head it up, because Joel, you're a CEO. I mean, that's your world. You're with a family of CEOs and for you to be able to lead that for us, well, so you just have, taught me how to sign up.

Mark Cole:       Yeah, exactly. Two spots are already gone right here. John have already gotten two of the spots.

John Maxwell:  If you snooze, you lose. I'm going to tell you right now, we're into this because it's going to be wonderful.

Joel Manby:      Well, I appreciate that very much. I'm trying to design, almost be a mini-MBA on servant leadership. And hopefully, it'll be a lot better value than Harvard, I'll tell you that. Because that was the expensive place. And it'll be a lot less pressure and stress. But so I want to come with principles, but also listen to the leaders and help them solve their issues and help solve your issues.

Mark Cole:       So again, Let's go to this message though, Love Works. I'm an up-and-coming leader as I was, when I first read the book and then reached out to you and you were so generous, John. It was because of you. Trust me, this Mark Cole, John Maxwell's asked me to lead, "Oh, John, okay. I'll take it. I'll spend some time with...." But literally, you spent time with me and worked with me on how to be a CEO that would use this content in developing culture. Talk to me a little bit about Love Works and the content here.

John Maxwell:  Before he talks, let me just say this joke, because you don't know this. When Mark told me that he was reading this book, because I've read it, it's a terrific book. But when he told me he was reading this book, I can't think of anything that developed him as a CEO and prepared him to do well as much as the time that he's had with you and we've had this book. And so from an observer standpoint, I watched Mark really grow when he got introduced to you and to Love Works.

And so what makes it exciting, if you help Mark, you're going to be able to help all these people. Because you may be right there and said, "Man, I need to have another leap." I mean, we had lunch today with a very successful executive from Latin America, who's built a great company and he looked at us and he said, "I need to go to the next level." There's a little bit of a lid. And I think that what's exciting, I mean, what you did for Mark, you're going to be able to do for these people. I'm very excited. So share with us a little bit.

Joel Manby:      Thank you. Well, basically the premise of the book is that most companies, spend, as I said earlier, all their time on what I would call the, do goals. Basically the financials. That's what I call it. We all have do goals. We have to hit profit margins. We have to hit sales targets, but most companies focus exclusively there.

This book introduces the concept of, be goals, basically, which are the definitions of your culture. So it goes into seven words of [inaudible 00:18:34] love, which is not an emotion. It's a verb. It's how you treat people. It's not how you feel about people. And by doing so, you define your culture and then it becomes about people and talks about, again, the process where we must spend as much time on the people side, on those seven words of love as we do on the finance side.

It goes specifically through the definitions of those seven words, but more importantly, how to live that out behaviorally, how to follow it up, how to measure it, how to reinforce it. It becomes the culture. And again, not just words on a plaque. That's what the book is about and I hope that it brings leaders from just thinking about, do goals, to also thinking about, be goals.

Mark Cole:       John, I love, both of you, you get categorized into self-help or personal growth or soft skill development. And yet, here at our company, the John Maxwell Enterprise, we've grown 600% the last 10 years by using principles like this. Talk to me, Joel, first you, and then you, John, about this misnomer, that soft skills does not drive bottom line. You talk about it in level three production. You talk about it in Love Works in these eight principles. How does soft skill leadership drive bottom line behavior?

Joel Manby:      Well, you're hitting on something, it actually drives me crazy that love or Love Works has that perception, or soft skills has that perception because it is a balance between the two. I mean, any fool can just focus on the financials and improve them momentarily, but you have to focus on the soft side, the people side to grow your enterprise.

It is a very common tale that entrepreneurs that are in small organizations, they aren't able to let go and delegate to their employees and grow their team members as leaders. And it stifles the organization. And that's why I think, John, frankly, I'm so impressed with, that you have the vision to grow your organization to multiple strong leaders, because the impact you can have worldwide is just going to be exponential, because as amazing as you are, you're still only one person.

John Maxwell:  Absolutely.

Joel Manby:      And so I think soft skills are the only way you can scale an organization and grow it big by delegating and focusing on your own leaders.

John Maxwell:  Yeah. There's a reason why, when Jack Walks was CEO at General Electric, when he would go to a plant, he'd spend 30 minutes with the manager of that plant. And then he'd be gone the rest of the day. And then at the end of the day, come back and see the manager for maybe a little update. But where was he? He's out with the people. He was out with the people asking questions. And he discovered everything he needed to know about that plant because he was where the people were.

And what I tell people all the time is, you can never bypass the people who do the work and have the work be effective. You've got to go to where the people, people don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care. You've got to find your people before you can lead your people.

And so what Joel is doing for us, is he is reinforcing what we've always taught. But he's reinforcing it in a very corporate sophisticated way. In other words, what I have taught now is going to be so much more relatable to you that are in companies because he's been a CEO of a company. And so he's going to take soft skills, but he's going to give definition to it and action to it so a person can know how to do it and develop that kind of a culture. But I, again, say you're not leading anything if you're just managing the numbers.

In fact, let me tell you, you don't even have to be a leader to make sure the numbers are right. You can just literally go in a room and close the door and forget about the rest of the world and just work those numbers till the cows come home. Leadership is when you're done in working those numbers, going out to the people who make the numbers happen. And they're the source and the moment that we do that, then all of a sudden we begin to have success.

Mark Cole:       Yeah. For those of you that are audio listening to us today or tonight, wherever you are, I'm holding up the book, Love Works. And of course, Joel, over a hundred thousand copies sold. And by the way, you could pick the book up anywhere books are sold, your favorite bookstore, soon to be at I'm not sure, I haven't checked with my team if you can get it there yet. But soon to be. But go get it.

John Maxwell:  Get it now, will be tomorrow.

Mark Cole:       I've got a thumbs up [crosstalk 00:23:08]. What are we talking about? So, you need to go pick that book up. And by the way, Joel, not only your books, not only Executive Circle and I'll remind you podcast listeners how to get there, but you guys are getting ready to do an event together. You guys are great writers, thinkers, leaders, but you're great speakers too, inspiring people, those of us to lead.

And so we're getting ready to do an event called Live to Lead. Now, podcast listeners, again, you're getting this before anybody else, John and Joel are going to be on stage with several other thought leaders in October and you have a chance to come and be a part of that and be in the room, meet Joel, get him to sign your book, see John, get him to sign your book.

And you can go to That's L, the number two, L-A-T-L .com. We're going to get an easier website next time, podcast listeners. But and you'll get to hear Joel, John, several other people talk on leadership. Let's just kind of close out the segment and talk through, we're coming back to events, I'm very excited about that.

But I want to talk about how, John, you have sold tons of copies of books. You sold tons of copies of books. You both have led big organizations, and yet you still at this stage of success, love to stand on stage and see the lights turned on. Why, Joel, do you stand on stage and share these messages to inspire people? I know why you do it in cultures, in corporate, but why stand on stage and do that?

Joel Manby:      Because I don't want other people to have to wait 20 years to hear the message that finally I learned after 20 years. I want to spread it as far and wide as I can. And that makes all the difference in the world to be there live because there's just things happen in that connection versus online, as everybody knows from COVID.

But I think of it almost like a water cooler in business. Water cooler is where you have the intimate conversation, meaning, the tough questions are talked about, things that you would never bring up in a business meeting. Same thing when you're speaking live, they grab you off stage so that you can answer their questions, have more interaction. I'll take live any day of the week, over online.

John Maxwell:  I had a mentor when I was very young, we asked the question, what are you reading that I should read? But he said, "John, you ask, what are you doing that I should do?" And when you talk about experiences, you can't bring an experience back to your company. I mean, I've made a mistake, I made a huge mistake as a young leader, Joel, is I would go to things like L2L. And I just take notes and I get so excited. And then I come back and sit down with the team. So now let me tell you where I was, I mean, here's what Joel said, and here's what Mark said. This is what Maxwell... And they're looking at me and they're saying, "yeah" and I'm saying, "Uh oh."

They're never going to catch what I caught. Yes, they're hearing what I heard, but they're not experiencing what I experienced. And I made a decision, it was a very good decision as a young leader, that when I was coming to a conference like L2, I'm always bringing my team. Therefore, I didn't have to go transfer it back and hope that they caught it. They caught it because they were with me and you catch it together.

And we all know that mentoring is more than information. What makes mentoring contagious is the experience. And so L2L, bring your team. This is the time when you sit there and say, "I've got six players and these people are inner circle and I'm going to bring them in and be with us and experience it and be caught up into the moment because you can't transfer that moment," when you go back home.

Joel Manby:      Yeah. [Crosstalk 00:27:03] together, you'd go off to have dinner together and talk about your, the John Maxwell talk-

John Maxwell:  It lives.

Joel Manby:      And that it lives, and it goes back.

John Maxwell:  It breathes. It has a life.

Mark Cole:       And that leads me to the final question and any other thoughts that you guys might would have. And then I'll give those links for people to learn more about you, Joel. But this concept of missed opportunity. We, as leaders, I'm one leading multiple organizations, what is the missed opportunity when it comes to developing your people, developing yourself? What do you see in your experience? That is the thing that most leaders miss when it comes to developing themselves and their leaders.

Joel Manby:      Do you want me to go first?

Mark Cole:       I do.

Joel Manby:      I think it's just the absence of company support. Most companies don't support their leaders getting leadership training.

John Maxwell:  Yeah. I agree.

Joel Manby:      Coming to [crosstalk 00:27:57]. It's basically lip service. And the investment in people doesn't tend to happen at the corporate level, it's all on the individual, which obviously they can come to this, but if I had to paint one magic wand, it was that all the companies put more resources into training and development of their people because it does pay off.

John Maxwell:  I agree.

Mark Cole:       Yeah. And I'm going to come to you with that same question, John. But one of the things, Joel, there's a lot to highlight about you. But when you were in that Undercover Boss series, one of my favorite highlights of what you did, I mean, you showed the importance, [inaudible 00:28:33] to Jack Welch, management by walking around. You showed the importance of being in there and with the people, which goes back to your point.

Joel Manby:      It goes back to John's point about what Jack Welch did. Interesting point about that, the Undercover Boss, I never intended to be an author but our Undercover Boss episode was after the NCAA quarterfinals, and 25 million people viewed that program and we were so inundated with emails and letters saying, "I want a leader like we saw in that program." That's what prompted me to write the book because I realized I'm not the only one that has this angst. There was a leadership crisis and that they needed to know about servant leadership. So that's why I think the book or coming to a conference is so important.

Mark Cole:       Yeah. And John, I mean, we kind of close this segment out. We've introduced Joel and lot of ways to connect, but I mean, we're standing on the shoulders of one of the most consistent leaders that I've ever been around, one of the ones that you can go to the bank, that whether you're undercover or whether you're on stage with a million, that you are truly consistent in your passion of developing others. I'd love you to just close this out and talk a little bit about that passion and how you see Joel, helping us continue that for many years to come.

John Maxwell:  Well, I think a person has to ask the question. Joel's already been successful as a CEO in private and public companies, why would he get back in the game? I mean, he doesn't need the money. He could be on his own doing his own thing. He doesn't need to get in the game. And the reason you're back in the game, Joel, is because you see what happens when you really, intentionally come into people's lives with the purpose of adding value to them and you watch how they respond.

And when you talk about speaking publicly and the lights are coming on, because they're right in front of, you can see it. And I can tell you right now, that's why we're in this game. We're in this game because we want the lights to come on for you. And, and what's our reward? Watching the lights come on. And you know, why that's our reward? Because I sat where you sat one time. I sat in a conference and I was leaning in and I was wanting to learn. And I didn't know. And I was waiting for somebody to give me the insights and the thoughts.

And I remember every time I would learn something, it was like another personal touchdown. And so the lights went on in my life to such a way that I said, "If I ever have the chance, I'm going to go turn light switches on everywhere I go." And when you come down to, we're going to turn the light switch on. But don't come alone. Again, if you come alone, you're going to have to try to transfer something that you can't take back.

Bring your people, I'm excited, and we're going to help people. And that's why, Mark, every day we do what we do because every day we're adding value to people. And I tell people, "iF you can share with me something that's more important than that, then you kind of teach it to me and I'll go do that." But until then, I'm just going to stay in the game of adding value to you because that's what we were called and born to do.

Joel Manby:      So podcast family, I'm the bad guy, because I'm the one that has to bring an end to two brilliant leaders, bringing their passion and their heart together. But I'm also the guy that gets to tell you there is going to be a lot more of Joel Manby around here. You're going to hear a lot more. You're going to get to experience a lot more and you will benefit every single time. I'm confident of it.

So what do you do? Go get the book at That's your favorite place to get a book by the way. Love Works by Joel Manby. Hey, come see us in Atlanta, L2L will be a life-changing experience for you. I stumbled because I know the website is coming to tell you to go. It is L2L-

John Maxwell:  This is our entertainment, folks. This is our entertainment. Let's bet. Is he going to make it, or is he not going to make it? Lay your money on the table right now. All right, go for it.

Mark Cole:       Go to That's L, the number two, And you can go to that. Thank you, studio audience. Thank you. Thank you. And finally-

John Maxwell:  O-H.

Mark Cole:       Oh man.

John Maxwell:  Well, you said finally.

Mark Cole:       Finally.

John Maxwell:  Oh that's what you wanted, was it? Or did you have something else?

Mark Cole:       That was perfect. And finally, sorry, Joel, to do that to you, we started and ended it that way. Finally, you're an executive, you're a, want to be executive like I was at one time and you want to be a part of an experience that will make you better, that will grow you, that will challenge you, Joel Manby is bringing with the Executive Circle, an opportunity that we're so grateful for, Joel.

And you can get more information about that at Podcast listeners, you're family, you get to meet mine and John's friends before anybody else. And today was no exception. If you'd like to hear this podcast again and listen to it in its entirety, you can go to, M-A-N-B-Y. And you will be able to download the show notes from today. You'll be able to pass along to a friend. You'll be able to give us a comment on how you were impacted today.

Thank you very much, Joel. Thank you, John. We stand on your shoulders and extend your legacy and are proud to do it.

John Maxwell:  Thank you.

Mark Cole:       Thank you, podcast listeners, because we want to add value to you. So you will multiply value to others. See you again next week.

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