Executive Podcast #271: Top People Mistakes Leaders Make

Perry Holley:

Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership executive podcast, where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holly, a Maxwell leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:

And I’m Chris Goede, executive vice president with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining. As we get started. If you would love to download the Learner’s guide for today’s session, I want to encourage you to go to maxwellleadership.com/podcast. There. Go down to this episode. If you’ll click on that, you’ll be able to download the learner guide for this. There’s also a form, if you’re interested in learning a little bit more about what we do in the corporate environment every day, which drives the content to this podcast where Perry and I just get in here, talk a little bit about a different leadership lesson or topic, and Perry is the one that creates all the content.

Chris Goede:

And this comes right out of the field.

Perry Holley:

It does.

Chris Goede:

And so this is what we do. We love to do this. And so if we can help you in any way, we would love to do that. Well, today’s topic is titled top people, mistakes leaders make. Talk to me about this.

Perry Holley:

It comes up so much that while there’s lots of mistakes leaders make and how you run the business and that types of things, perhaps, but one I think that really resonates with all of us is that no matter what business you think you’re in, you’re in the people business and you may do it. We think we do leader. We’re in the people business. We do it through leadership development. And that when you’re not clicking with people, I’ve been teaching a lot lately, been doing a lot of interest in the five levels. How do you gain influence? 360, leader influencers, 360, all kinds of things. How do you deal with people in the business? So I thought I’d just, I looked through, there’s lots written on this, but what I’ve seen in my own coaching and training that we’ve done this year, what are leaders struggling with? And maybe you get your point of view on how do we overcome some of these.

Chris Goede:

Yeah, I love actually the reference of the 360 degree leader. You and I happened to be with a client last week, and we were in the field, and it was interesting.

Perry Holley:

Do you enjoy watching me in the back?

Chris Goede:

I loved it. I looked down at the end. I didn’t have any notes. But what I love about what you just said is let’s take 360 for an example. It’s a great content where we really talk about, how do you lead across? How do you lead up, how do you lead down? How do you lead yourself? What does that look like? But we were with an organization to where they’re in the service and the sales side of things, and their leader got up and said exactly what you just said. They said, hey, we’re in the people business. Let’s not forget that before anything else happens at the core of our organization, we’re at the people business. That’s where influence is started.

Chris Goede:

It’s where it’s found. And we talk a lot about level two, Ed, and the five levels of leadership, you and I both, because we think that’s the best level, but it is the foundation of where you connect with people and you begin to build your influence.

Perry Holley:

We definitely major at level two.

Chris Goede:

Yeah.

Perry Holley:

Let me just jump in. The first people mistake is not making a connection with every person on your team. Now, the connection. And connecting is such a strong word, and I mean it to be strong here. It’s different from building a relationship or getting to know people. If you make a connection to someone, it really is a much deeper bond, and it makes me want to follow you, not have to follow you. But what’s your view on connecting versus just having a relationship?

Chris Goede:

Let me ask you this to your point, right? You could say, hey, I do not have a relationship with Chris, but I do connect with Chris. Could you say that about a team member where you’re. No, no. I don’t have a relationship with Susie. Right. But I connect with Susie. Or you have to look at me. Let me unpack this a little bit for you, because, by the way, if you’re not watching on YouTube, you need to, because Perry’s like, where are you going? It sounded better in my head than when it came out.

Chris Goede:

What I mean by that is there are people that I connect with that I don’t have relationships with, but people that I do have relationships with, I also connect with. And so there is a difference when you really think about this. And so there’s leaders that I’ve worked with in the past where I don’t have a relationship with them, but in situations, I’ve connected with them, or I can connect with them on something. And so here’s a couple of things on what I do with people that I don’t have relationships with, but I do connect with them because I’m a little bit of. More of a logical. Right. And I see things in charts and graphs and all kind of stuff. I have a spreadsheet that is everything that I need to know about people that I kind of work with and connect with, whether it’s their values, whether it’s how they’re wired, whether it might be some of their favorite things, like things that allow me to be able just to connect with someone where I know that I don’t have to build a relationship with them because the power of connecting is so strong.

Chris Goede:

You may even sit here and you say, well, no, listen, there’s no way I can connect with that. Team member John teaches a lesson about find the 1% and go 100% in on that 1%. There’s got to be 1% of something that you connect with somebody on. I would find it hard to believe that if you were not curious, then let me say this. I find it hard to believe that if you didn’t ask questions and if you weren’t curious, that you wouldn’t be able to find something. There’s something in there that’s 1% that you can connect with. That’s the key to level two, because you don’t have to build a relationship. You just got to be able to connect with them.

Perry Holley:

Remember, what’s the purpose of level two of the five levels? It’s called permission and the r word there, relationships. But it’s connecting is so much deeper that says, why am I doing this? Is that I know you have to follow me because I may have the title. I want you to want to follow me. I want you to give me permission to lead you. And I think that this is. We talk about engagement and those type of things. This is why it’s a huge people mistake, is if you’re not connecting, if you’re not finding that 1%, I love that I have forgotten about that 1% and go 100% in on it and find out how to make some. The end game is, if you’re working with me, I want you to know that I’m connected, we’re connected, and that I want you to want to be here.

Perry Holley:

And I believe we can conquer anything if we do that.

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Perry Holley:

Number two, people, mistake was not being accessible or approachable. Why are you laughing?

Chris Goede:

I think my team helped you with this one.

Perry Holley:

Chris, is not an intervention. This is not. But actually, it’s a very good point.

Chris Goede:

Yeah.

Perry Holley:

You have been asked to do a lot in the organization over the last months, and it has changed your accessibility, has not changed your approachability. But this idea that we want people on our team to, we want to allow them the autonomy to do their work. I don’t want to be a micromanaging leader, but I don’t want to also be too distant that you don’t think, I’m not present, I’m not there. And I think yours is a great example. You’re trying very hard to remain that because we had a tight, small group and we had a focused thing. You were very accessible and very approachable. Now you’re being asked to do other things. As this is true for many who are listening to us right now.

Perry Holley:

Your role is being expanded. You’re wearing many hats. So how do you stay accessible and approachable? And those are two different things.

Chris Goede:

They are two different things.

Perry Holley:

But how do you remain accessible to your team and not just go get focused on the next big thing on your job?

Chris Goede:

Yeah, I love how you clarified, because I think there’s a huge difference. There are times that you’re not going to be as accessible, but you always need to be approachable. John has again, just cemented this to me for years, where you walk slowly through the crowd. I have a tendency to, when I got my mind on something, if I’m somewhere in a crowd or if I’m walking around the office like I am, just head down, walking full speed. And that’s not the right way to go about it. Right. Like, just make sure you keep your head up, make sure that you look approachable, even though your schedules are tight and you might not be accessible. Here’s what I want to tell you.

Chris Goede:

A couple of things that I keep in the back of my head when I get squeezed in times of stress or calendars. And then all of a sudden, I don’t become very accessible. I always come back to the fact that the people that are on my team are opportunities. They’re not interruptions. There is something that they’re doing. They’re closest to the fire, they’re closest to the field, they’re closest to the client. And so there’s an opportunity there for us to serve the team member, but then also to serve our client. And so I have to think about that, and I’ve got to slow down and I got to separate.

Chris Goede:

Hey, I don’t have time right now to have another meeting or a conversation. I got to think about people as opportunities, not interruptions. I’m always available. In my season of life, I tell my team all the time that text and call me at any point in time. They always laugh and they go, well, we’re not sure if you’ll text me back or call me back. That’s a different story. And then I think the other thing for me is the principle I’m trying to put in place to help me through this, because maybe you say, man, I’m not as accessible as I want to be. The 1080 ten principle more so than ever, I think the busier that we get, and I think that the people mistake that we make.

Chris Goede:

Is that to your point just a minute ago, some people are like, they delegate it, and then they just don’t ever follow up. They don’t ever check in. And so if you put some guardrails in place and you say, hey, 1080 ten. And what we mean by that is, hey, I’m going to come to you and I’m going to talk about the first 10% of what we’re thinking about on a project, on a goal, on a KPI. I’m going to let you run with 80% of it. But then when you get to the back end of the 10%, I want to come back and have another meeting, and then that gives them the initiative to run and to lead it. But then they know when they get to the back end of the 10% of project, or whatever it might be, problem, they’re solving that. Then they have to take the initiative to schedule another meeting, and then we can kind of get together on that back 10%.

Chris Goede:

So it is something that is a people mistake that I think as we get busier happens more and more, and we don’t even realize it. I’ve had people call me out and I love it, and they’re like, hey, I just saw you kind of completely walk right through your team.

Perry Holley:

I don’t see that.

Chris Goede:

But I’ve had it said before, right? And so I’m like, oh, you’re right. Like, you know what I need to remember that’s my opportunity right there to serve and to lead.

Perry Holley:

I think you do a nice job, and I think it’s a great reminder that even just those little moments walking through the hall, not ignoring, even though you’re in a hurry, you’re late for a meeting, whatever you do, you pause and you speak and you let them know, hey, I’m late, but it’s good to see you, and I’ll catch up with you later. You let me and others feel like we’re seen, we’re there, and truly the team knows that you’re under pressure. Every leader’s got, especially this time of year, things are piling up. We’re trying to get across the finish line, those types of things. I was also thinking your personality and mine as well, works very similar as it leads us to be a little better at this, being accessible and being approachable. I’m thinking of some of the people that are more task driven, more level three specialists that are just so good at producing results can plow right through and just don’t even think about the people moment, the walking slowly through the crowd. So I think you got to pay attention to your personality and temperament. And if you’re the people people like we are, it maybe comes a little easier.

Perry Holley:

But still using those moments. If you’re a task production type person, you’re going to have to get intentional about slowing it down, speaking to people, letting them know that you see them being accessible, being approachable. Because it’s not going to come natural.

Chris Goede:

No. And here’s what I’ll say. If you’re on the receiving end of it, you’re on the receiving end of your leader not being accessible. Just know this. It’s not personal.

Perry Holley:

Usually.

Chris Goede:

If it is, you might be having a meeting at 04:00 on Friday. Right? But it’s not personal. I know as I was growing up in my professional career, I would take that personally sometimes, especially when I worked for a leader that was naturally bent towards level three. And I’d be like, oh, man, is it me? I want to have sound, have conversation. It’s not personal.

Perry Holley:

Just know that people mistake top, people mistake number three around not developing the talent on the team. I’ve seen this where leaders get so focused on driving results, they make a mistake of not looking at the growth plan and taking a moment to look into the growth opportunities for the people on their team. We teach that your number one job as a leader is to create more leaders. And so are you thinking about the next level, the next steps, the growth of the people on the team. Are they getting better? Are you investing in them? And I think people, if you don’t feel like I’m going to pull back, if I know you’re investing in me, maybe I lean in a little more. What’s your thoughts on this is we.

Chris Goede:

Talk about periodically, John talks about the law of the lid. And for me, in organizations and in leaders, this is a lid right here. You and I both know this. There are people around the world, all types of different industries and organizations, to where they’re not focused on developing their team. They’re a great individual contributor, and now they want their team to be, they want to contribute like that, but they don’t think about how are they developing their team. And so I just call it the lid. I call it the lid and a lot of growth in organizations of what you could achieve as a team or as a leader, as an organization has the lid on because you’re not developing your team well, you go, hey, so I don’t want to make this mistake. How do I go about doing that? Because I got this responsibility.

Chris Goede:

I got this. I got this. I can’t add another thing on my to do list. And one of the things I would encourage you to do is that you are already doing things that they could be a part of that would help them develop meetings, phone calls, projects, all that kind of stuff is to begin sitting down and thinking, who could I bring along with me to this meeting? That it would add value to them. Not to take something off your plate, but add value to them and develop them. Who could go on this business trip with us? You know what? Who needs to listen in on this call, right? Just to observe and so begin thinking that way so that you can just, all you got to do is invite them and they’re going to start getting developed at the basic level of that. And so I just ask you consider that so you don’t make that.

Perry Holley:

I think we did a podcast similar about don’t stop trying to add leadership development to your calendar. Instead, add leadership development to the things that are already on your calendar.

Chris Goede:

Yeah, that’s good.

Perry Holley:

And invite people along. Love that. Number four of top people mistakes I’ve seen is not providing regular feedback to your team. This comes up a lot in our coaching that people don’t know how they’re doing. They don’t know how they can improve. They don’t know are they doing the right things. And I have found that when I ask leaders, are you providing feedback to your team? I love telling them when they’re doing something good. I said, yeah, that’s called encouragement.

Perry Holley:

Feedback is two forms of that. But your thoughts on. I think I ask them, why don’t you? And it comes down to, well, I just haven’t taken the time and appreciate them saying, I didn’t have the time, didn’t take the time, and I don’t really want to start a problem. I don’t really want to start a conflict of that. What are your thoughts on that?

Chris Goede:

Well, I used to wait and I’d be like, okay, I got to put together a case. And then I would wait and I would wait and then I just wouldn’t have the conversation for a better time. Yeah, I definitely need to improve in this area, but I think that this happens more real time for me than ever. And it’s just like, hey. And I love using the intention versus perception gap. Hey, I know this is not your intent right here, but I saw this. I just want to give this as your feedback to let you know that’s how I try. I know you have this feedback conversation idea that I’d love for you to just kind of share with our listeners.

Perry Holley:

It changed everything for me because I thought feedback was always, they were taught the feedback sandwich, tell them something good, tell them something bad. Tell them something good. I thought, I don’t know who invented that, but I think it was for the giver of feedback to make you feel better because nobody hears the bad. They only hear the two goods and you get out before they figure it out. No. Here’s what I was pioneering for a while was as close to something I witnessed as possible. We’re on a sales call. You were doing a facilitation.

Perry Holley:

You’re doing a presentation for the team. I tell you something, I thought you did really well. I see one area I think could possibly be improved. And then the magic was I said, what do you think? And when I said, what do you think? You’re either going to get pushback, no, I disagree, or, wow, thank you. Let’s talk about that. And I wanted to generate, not me downloading on you, I wanted to have a conversation with you about your performance that could help both of us because how do you see it? I saw that you probably could have brought a better point of view on our value prop to the client in that closing. You did well. Here’s why I did that, boss.

Perry Holley:

I did that on this specific reason. Well, that’s interesting. Maybe we should talk to the rest of the team. How are we doing that? Because now that we’re having a conversation through the feedback. We’re all growing and getting better. So what you did well, an area I thought could be improved. What do you think? And then generate that conversation for me.

Chris Goede:

Right. I love that.

Perry Holley:

Number five, the final one was call it being more inclusive or not being inclusive. We talked a lot about this through the year. I thought this year. But everybody on the team wants to feel like they are welcome here, like they belong here, like it’s safe, like you value me. And I think leaders get in a hurry sometimes. And I never met a leader ever that wanted to exclude their team. But we do things by just the rush and hurry and not thinking that cause people to wonder, am I an insider and outsider here? And I just wonder, have you seen it’s a natural human need that people have to feel like they belong? Am I doing what I need to help my team feel like they belong?

Chris Goede:

Well, I love that you threw this in here because this is something that really, in this past year, that has really come to a head with some of our clients. And you’ve written an entire course and a training on this and including people on the team. We hire people and we bring them on the team because of special gifts and talents and, oh, we’re missing this. And then we get them in there and we want them to be just like us and we don’t want to change them. I was on the road this past week, towards the end of the week with our CEO, and we went and we were meeting with some different people that just think completely different than we do. And we were debriefing on the way back to the airport before we flew back, and we were like, the thing is that that mindset in the business side is something that’s a gap that we have in our team. We want to make sure that if we fill that gap and we begin to do some work with this, that we let them run their course. Can we let them run and feel comfortable with that? Right.

Chris Goede:

And you have these conversations because we need to be able to inclusively lead that and that people then belong. They feel like they belong on the team, that they’re adding value. We have diverse teams. We need more diversity on our teams. But can we inclusively become a better leader by allowing the people on our team to really shine and do what they’re created to do? I’ll wrap up by saying this because I think this is. You might have listened to this and go, man, this is simple. I get it. But I would challenge you to say people are our most appreciable asset, right? And we just get into a rut.

Chris Goede:

We get complacent at times. And, like, I was going do this, and I was like, you know what? I probably do a little bit of that right now.

Perry Holley:

Me, too.

Chris Goede:

I probably do a little bit like that. And I’ve been leading for a long time. So it may be simple, but I want to make sure you understand it’s not easy. And we want you to go back and really just look at each of these and say, man, where can I just improve a little bit on each one of these? And I’ll leave you with this thought. You guys have heard this. We manage things. We lead people. And as leaders, we need to make sure that’s our number one priority.

Chris Goede:

And what is it that we’re doing with our people every day? Because without our people, even in the AI world, there’s people behind that. And so without people, then none of us would have the organization that we have. So make sure that we’re really focused on that, because we will naturally get into gruts and we’ll make mistakes. And you and I are kind of just sitting here going, yeah, like, that’s me. I’ve done each one of these multiple times, maybe this year here over our career. And so just take a look at that.

Perry Holley:

I hear John Maxwell in my ear saying, you’re not going to be successful unless those people around you want you to be. So let’s pay more attention. An intentional act to really pay attention to the people, and they’ll take care of everything else in that. So thank you, Chris. As a reminder, as Chris told you at the top, if you’d like to learn more about our offerings, leave a comment or a question, see some of the other of our podcast family. You can do all that at maxwellleadership.com/podcast. We love hearing from you.

Perry Holley:

We’re very grateful you’d spend this time with us. That’s all today from the Maxwell Leadership executive podcast.