Executive Podcast #294: Winning the Relationship Game

Perry Holley:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership executive podcast, where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holley, a Maxwell leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:
And I’m Chris Goede, executive vice president with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for joining. As we get ready to dive into today’s podcast, I want to encourage you, if you have a multi generational workforce, if you have generations that are represented on your team, and maybe you go, you know what? I just don’t get so and so, or we’re not connecting like we want to. Here’s what I want to encourage you to do. Go to maxwellleadership.com/podcast. This is the podcast here. Click on this one that you see in there. Fill out the form.

Chris Goede:
Let us know. To want some more information, we have developed a content piece that Perry orchestrated off of Tim Elmore’s content. It’s basically around leading multi generational teams, and it’s probably one of the most requested topics that we’re talking about today. And I want to encourage you if that’s something that would serve you or your team, we would love to serve you there. Well, today’s topic is titled winning the relationship game. And I know this is just a. This is a classic from John. I love it.

Perry Holley:
And.

Chris Goede:
And I know this is a natural thing for you, or I. I think it was probably something like, hey, what can I just get Chris and I just to talk about and pull some stuff out of her hat? But, man, how do we win at the relationships game? Talk to us a little bit about why you’re bringing this.

Perry Holley:
I wish it was just a shitty chat between Chris and Perry, but it. I don’t know what’s going on, man. If it. The market, what the marketplace, or the. The pressure of the times, the economic pressures, the thoughts that we have, an election, a future global disruption, I don’t know. But by far, the number one thing that’s come up as far as challenges, big challenges, where people have been sent to me, my boss says I should talk to you, and I just had one last week, first call. I said, I always start with, especially if it’s a little off odd about why I’m coaching this particular person. It was, they’re not part of the leadership team or something like that.

Perry Holley:
They’re a first line manager somewhere. What got you thrown into a room with me? And the guy said, well, apparently I upset people. And I thought it again. Another one that is really struggling with connecting with people. And I just thought it reminded me of a classic John line. He said that people won’t go along with you if they can’t get along with you. And John introduces the elevator principle, which says that we can either lift people up or take people down in our relationships. And I guess the question all leaders have to ask is, am I lifting people up or taking people down? But what are your thoughts about how leaders lift and don’t lift with their team?

Chris Goede:
Well, the first thing I want to do is go back a little bit. And I want to ask, you know, how are things going with those team members of mine that I sent to you? That’s right. I mean, listen, I need to, I wasn’t going to show you there. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think when you talk about this, you know, lifting or not lifting or withdrawing energy or giving energy. Right. To, to leaders into your team, I really think it depends on their leadership style.

Chris Goede:
I think it depends on their communication skills with their team members. I think it, I think it depends on their empathy level, which I have a hard time, you know, saying that word. I don’t do well with that word. And so I think all, I think depending on the style there is what allows people to, what I would say lift or not lift people or, or their leaders. You can look at this two different ways. Right. And we, we’re going to get into this a little bit later, but I think, you know, when you begin, there’s two examples of things that, that I’ll share with this, is that when you are lifting people, I think when you’re coaching them, we did a podcast a couple weeks ago about coaching them for growth. I think you’re lifting people.

Chris Goede:
Right. I think when you are providing a career development, when you’re providing a track for growth, you’re lifting people. It’s why one of the, I think it’s top three now, reasons why people are selecting careers or selecting jobs for organizations is that they can see that there is an opportunity for personal development and professional development and they can see that career trajectory. And I think that lifts people.

Perry Holley:
Love that. There you statistics again.

Chris Goede:
I’m loving that a little bit. I didn’t get as deep as a couple ago, but top three is. Yeah, I got to keep, I got to keep your expectations, you know.

Perry Holley:
Yeah.

Chris Goede:
Way down low. That’s right.

Perry Holley:
John talks about this topic with the elevator principle. He kind of reveals four kinds of people it comes to when building relationships. So I thought we just hit these quick and just figure out. Which one are you?

Chris Goede:
I was getting ready to say quick, or are we going to talk about who’s which one here?

Perry Holley:
Yeah. So the first type that John talks about is some people add something to life and we enjoy these people that they’re adders. They make the lives of others more pleasant, more enjoyable. They are lifters. So this is a good thing. People who add value to others, he says, almost always do it intentionally. Boy, that’s a huge statement, is that if you’re going to add value to others, you need to do it on purpose. And adding value to others requires a person to give themselves, and that rarely happens by accident.

Perry Holley:
Now, I ask audiences all the time, because I said, you want to add value to others. That’s fun to say. How do you add value to others? What your view of that is? How do you add value to another person?

Chris Goede:
You know, John has this principle he talks about of getting out of the people pile.

Perry Holley:
Oh, I just, yeah, that lesson he did in Orlando a few weeks ago.

Chris Goede:
I think when you really think about that statement of getting out of the people pile, what you want to do is you want to do in a way where you add value to people with the right motive to get out of the people pile. And so there’s things that you can, you can do with them along the way that add value to them. Some of the things that I think about is, is, you know, making sure that you’re equipping them with the proper resources. How frustrating is that to, to have people on your team that don’t have the right resources to do their job? I think you can do some small things, like a little handwritten note, which a lot of people are like, what’s that these days? Right? Handwritten note or a small little gift that something may be on their personal life. Like you find out, hey, what are some things that they like to do on the side and just a little, you know, little gift on the side there, maybe make sure that their priorities and our priorities are aligned. And you talk about that. So there’s multiple different ways, both professionally and personally, that I think that you can add value to them to where they just enjoy being around each other.

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Perry Holley:
Yeah, it’s an interesting idea to think it was person by person. What would add value to this, to this individual.

Chris Goede:
Right? Yeah.

Perry Holley:
So again, as a leader, understanding, and by the way, think about this being 360 degrees, again, is that I add value, and up to my supervisor, down to my team, across to my peers, is that I’m trying to build influence by developing these relationships. Again, level two and the five levels. And I’m really investing in doing something intentionally to add value to people, which increases my level of influence with you, which makes us more effective. Kind of the bottom line to all that. The second type of person John mentions, uh oh. Some people subtract something from us. We don’t value them. We tolerate them for some reason.

Perry Holley:
They don’t. They don’t lighten the load. They make your load a little heavier. It’s often unintentional. I don’t think there are some people, maybe they do it on purpose, but by far, my experience is they just don’t know how to add value to others. So they take. Versus is giving. It takes effort to build something, and it doesn’t take a whole lot of effort to tear something down.

Perry Holley:
And I love the thought about lightening other people’s loads or making them heavier. What’s your experience with, how would you coach someone not to be a subtractor?

Chris Goede:
Yeah. When I think about the word subtractor, it immediately puts me in a bad mood. Right. Like, our shoulders dropped. Like, oh, here comes so and so through the door. Some of the things that I think about that of a subtractor for me is someone who needs constant supervision. They’re bringing drama. There’s negative attitude, that negative energy that’s there.

Chris Goede:
Maybe they’re undermining authority in certain situations. And so one of the things I would coach them to do is, and you mentioned this maybe in a recent podcast, we talked about the 360, the 360 degree content. And we actually, through some of our training there that we take teams through, we go through an exercise that is, what are your leaders? Rules. Like, what are the rules?

Perry Holley:
Unwritten rules.

Chris Goede:
Right, right. And. Yeah, and so you literally. That’s right. Unwritten rules. Cause you wouldn’t know, you would know what the rules are, but the unwritten rules. And so we take them through and we force rank them and you come up with a list of unwritten rules. And, and so I would encourage you to figure out what those, what those are.

Chris Goede:
Right. And, and I would encourage you to share those with your team. Or maybe, like you mentioned earlier leading up, maybe you go and figure out what your leader’s unwritten rules are through this exercise so that you know that you’re not a negative energy on them. Uh, and so, for example, one of mine is to bring things to me quickly. Let’s get on the front end of it. Right. And let’s, let’s figure this out. Well, you’re going to be subtracting from me if we’re a couple weeks down the road and I find out about an opportunity or a problem that we could have been working on that you knew about and just didn’t get to me.

Chris Goede:
Right. So that’s going to be subtracting from, from me and the energy level. So those unwritten rules and that exercise is just a fascinating conversation for people to have with their leaders.

Perry Holley:
Yeah. I think about, again, 360, if you’re going to subtract from your boss is you come into the office and, and ask, you want them to do the thinking, you want to add value. Hey, boss, here’s what I was thinking. What do you, and then get them to comment on that. But there’s small things you do that take away and make the load heavier. And those types of things which I think can really affect our influence negatively, we’re not lifting the people above us, beside us or below us. We’re taking them down a notch to do that. A third type that John describes is, he calls them a multiplier, but said some people multiply something in life and we value these people.

Perry Holley:
He said, anybody can be an adder, but it takes a desire to lift people up and intentionally follow through to be this multiplier. It goes to another level in relationship when you, by the intentional, strategic skilled about how you take people. The greater the talent, the resources, the greater the potential and the multiplier. This interests me about being a multiplier. How do you, you think about being the adder, the subtractor, but the multiplier really takes it to another level. What do you think about that?

Chris Goede:
Well, let me give you some characteristics of a multiplier. I think those that value partnership people that are heavily invested in partnering together and helping you succeed, and then in turn, you know, they succeed and I think that they will significantly enhance the team’s overall performance and effectiveness. You know, they, they’ll demonstrate excellence, they’ll have strong initiative. I love that they’ll drive for results. And then the other thing I thought about was, they will be be kind of an extension of inspiring others on the team. And I think those are just some of the characteristics that I think about when it comes to that.

Perry Holley:
The word initiate jumps in my head, too, is that I love people on my team. When they initiate and take action without me having to have a thought about everything, that they really multiply. I mean, I can add something, but if we’re both. It gets exponential when we’re both thinking about it. They don’t require me to do the thinking. They’re doing the thinking, actually. They put themselves in my position and think, how can I multiply what my leader’s doing? And finally, John talks about that fourth type of person is the divider, that they divide something in life, and that we try to avoid these types.

Chris Goede:
I need to leave the podcast right now.

Perry Holley:
You are not a divider. You are a multiplier. Uh, dividers are so damaging because unlike subtractors, there’s a negative. Actions are usually intentional, so they’re doing something to undermine that. We talked about the rowers, watchers and sinkers. These are your sinkers. Um, they are hurtful people who make themselves look or feel better by trying to make someone else look worse than they do. So it makes me look better to tear you down to do that.

Perry Holley:
They damage relationships, create havoc in other people’s lives. Obviously, we want to stay away from these types of people. We don’t end up being this negative type, but talk about what we can do to be the lifters of people, not this divider. I think for most of us, this audience type, we’re not trying to divide or tear things down, but really want to move toward being a lifter.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. So let’s talk about a couple of things around. How do we lift people? What does that look like? And so lifters commit themselves to daily encouragement authentically. Right. I want to be very clear on that. Make sure the encouragement is authentic. And, you know, lifters know the little difference that separates kind of what hurts people and what helps people remember. Little things lead to big things.

Chris Goede:
I told my kids that growing up forever, right? And so little things that you do every day have a huge impact, greater than one that you might think. And so whether that’s a smile, and I always think about you walking through the airport and just some of the studies, self studies, the Perry Holley study of smiling has done. And so I’ll find myself doing the same thing, right? I’m just like, man, that individual needs a smile, and I’m gonna make them smile back at me, right? And some do and some don’t, but it’s like, you know, walking down there, and so just the little things can make someone’s day, whether it’s a nice comment or not, a kind word. Instead of criticism, will man just lift their spirits? And it’s funny. Cause, you know, I’m a believer. And we were at church yesterday, and our pastor was talking. He’s doing a series on the games people play. And it was really, yesterday was really about, one of the points was about the power of being kind and kindness, and he made this statement.

Chris Goede:
And so I want to encourage our listeners that as we talk about this, we. We think about a lot of nice, kind things to do for people, but it’s not kind until we actually do it. Meaning you could be like, and his example was, and yesterday was raining here in Atlanta as we’re recording this podcast. And so, you know, our parking crew’s out there getting after it. Welcome, crew. It’s raining there in jackets. And. And so he, he said, you probably sat down and thought, man, that was, you know what? I should be kind.

Chris Goede:
I should say thank you or whatever he said, but it’s not kind until you do it. And so to my point here is that there are ways that we can lift people up and show kindness to them in little ways, but you got to do more than just think about it.

Perry Holley:
Well, you think about, do you have any problems going on in your life behind the scenes right now? Anything you’re struggling with, anything that’s a little hard that maybe other people don’t know about? And you say, I’m guaranteeing 100% of the people listening said yes. Well, so does everyone else. And so just having that little empathetic thought that says, I know people are struggling, and I want to be a lifter to them. And your word about kind of went over it kind of quick. The word encouragement is such a, it comes up on 360 surveys we do with leaders. Look at above, beside, and below them. Does my boss, does this person know when I’m discouraged? And it comes out very lowly rated almost all the time. And I thought, how easy it is.

Perry Holley:
Give encouragement. Who needs encouragement? Here’s the trick. Are they breathing? Yes, they need encouragement. Everybody needs to be encouraged. So lifters are positive when things are negative. You’re always making people feel something. So your comment about going through the airport smiling is, I’m going to make people feel something when I come through the door in my conference room, I want to make people feel something when I come through the door at the end of the day at my house, I want to make people feel something on purpose and to do that intentionally. And my last thought was, don’t say, well, I’ll do it when there’s a better time.

Perry Holley:
I’ll do it tomorrow. I’ll do it the next time I see them. No, do it now. And really take advantage of lifting people up.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. And as we wrap up, you’ve mentioned something I want to hit on real quick when we talk about winning the relationship game, and now more than ever, to your point, all the things that are going on in the world, it seems like it’s something we’re missing out on. And so when you’re talking about our Maxwell leadership assessment, which is a traditional 360 degree assessment, one of the things I love about our partnership with that organization is that we can see the results year over year. And so one of the things that we look for in this is saying, hey, okay, so where is this encouragement? Where is this connecting with people, and what was your rating? And then we’re going to be able to leverage that against twelve months later after they spent some time really working through this and some of their struggles. And those are one of the areas that we really want to see the needle moved, because everybody deserves to be led well. And if we want to create powerful, positive change, we got to understand this relationship game. And so, if we understand it, I think the, the results of this will show up in retention of our team, recruitment of talent that’s out there, because I promise you this, you figure this out. This is a differentiator for your leadership and your organization.

Chris Goede:
I think it’ll create a culture of creativity and positivity which will drive trust, respect, collaboration, all those words that Perry and I have unpacked over time. And so we’ve got to figure out the relationship game.

Perry Holley:
Well, we think we’re in leadership development, but we’re not. We’re in the people business, and we do it through leadership development. You may think you’re in manufacturing, you’re not. You’re in the people business, but you do it through manufacturing. It’s all people business. So the better you get, as Chris said, the better you’ll be more effective. You’ll be with people. Just a reminder, if you’d like that learner guide that goes with this.

Perry Holley:
Learn about our offerings. See the other of our podcast family. Do all that at maxwellleadership.com/Podcast. You can also leave us a comment or a question there. We love hearing from you, and we’re very grateful you’d spend this time with us. That’s all today from the Maxwell Leadership executive podcast.