Things that Don’t Require Talent (Part 2)

Mark Cole:

Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. This is the podcast that adds value to leaders who multiply value to others. My name is Mark Cole and today Chris Goede and I continue the series where John Maxwell’s teaching five things that don’t require talent. These are five things that every growing person must embrace to take their leadership to the next level. Last week we covered the first two points. We talked about teachability and initiative. This week we’re going to join John and he will cover the remaining three. Now if you would like to watch this episode or even last week’s episode to catch up, you can watch it on YouTube.

You can listen in. You can also download the bonus resource for this episode all by visiting MaxwellPodcast.com/Talent. Now let’s join John for the rest of this lesson on things that don’t require talent. Here is John Maxwell.

John Maxwell:

Number three. The third thing that requires no talent, and yet you can be successful if you have it, is passion. Reggie Leach said this about passion. Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion. You must first set yourself on fire. So what are some pointers on passion that I can give you? Number one, beware of firefighters. Beware of firefighters. When it comes to passion, there are two kinds of people fire, lighters, and firefighters.

You need to stay away from the firefighters, and here’s why. Number one, firefighters focus on what’s wrong with an idea rather than what’s right. They’re always on the negative side. Two, firefighters possess a doubting spirit. Number three, firefighters work behind the scenes to cause dissension. They’ll do everything they can to undermine undercut. Number four, firefighters hate change. Number five, firefighters love the words yes, but, well, yes, but, yes, but, well, yes, but.

Number six, firefighters keep people with great potential from going to the top. That’s the nature of these people. So if you have passion, you got to watch out for firefighters. The second thought on passion is prioritize your life according to your passion. Prioritize your life according to your passion. The following quote I had for several years, and it just absolutely fed my passion. It’s by Tim Redmond. There are many things that will catch my eye, but there are only a few that catch my heart.John Maxwell:

It is those I consider to pursue, not the things that catch your eye. A lot of things will catch those what catches your heart. So prioritize your life according to your passion. Number three. Passion is the first step to achievement. It’s step number one. If you want to achieve, find your passion and follow it. That’s all the career advice that you will ever need.

Well, there’s so much to say about passion, but the last thing I’m going to say I think is the most important. Passion is the fuel for vision. The fuel for your dream is your passion. Are you ready for number four? Courage. Courage doesn’t take talent. People you’ve never heard somebody say, oh, they were courageous because they had a high IQ. Courage requires no talent. James Robinson said, greatness in the last analysis is largely bravery.

Courage is escaping from old ideas and old standards and respectable ways of doing things. This is a tremendous thought. Courage is an everyday test. It’s an everyday test. We often think of courage as a quality required only in times of great danger or stress. But courage is an everyday virtue needed to live life without regrets. Why do we need courage? Oh, my goodness. Number one we need courage to seek truth when we know it may be painful.

Number two, we need courage to change, especially when it’s easier to remain comfortable. It takes courage for us to change, especially when if we stayed in our own area, we would be comfortable. Number three we need courage to express our convictions when others challenge us. In fact, it was Thomas Jefferson who said, one man with courage is a majority. Number four, we need courage to overcome obstacles when progress will come no other way. And number five, we need courage to learn and grow when it will display our weakness. In other words, when it’s going to show our weakness. We need courage one more thought on courage because it’s such an important thing that requires, again, no talent in a person’s life.

We need courage to take the high road when others treat us badly Because He who loses wealth loses much, and he who loses friends loses more. But he who loses courage loses all. Number seven we need courage to lead when being in front makes us an easy target. We need courage to lead when being in front makes us an easy target. Martin Luther King, Jr. Said, there is an agonizing loneliness that characterizes the life of a pioneer. Let me give you number five. Let me give you something else that takes no talent at all.

Encouragement. Encouragement takes no talent at all. And George Adams said, encouragement is the oxygen to the soul. It’s the elevator principle I have in my book Winning with People. We can lift people up or take people down in our relationships. Okay, why do people need encouragement? Number one most people don’t believe in themselves in life. It’s not what you are that holds you back. It’s what you think you’re not.

That’s why they need encouragement. Number two most people have few, if any, people who believe in them. When nobody is there to cheer you on every day, you are likely to feel isolated and discouraged. Mark Twain said, keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that. But the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great. Number three, most people know when someone believes in them. Booker T.

Washington said, you can’t hold a man down without staying down with him. And number four, most people will do anything within their power to embrace a leader’s belief in them. If others look up to you, then reach down and lift them up. It will change their lives. William Ward said, flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you, but encourage me, and I will not forget you. That is so true.

So who’s going to be successful in life? The person that’s major talented or the person who understands the things that we talked about today that require no talent, but they pursue those with great diligence? I guarantee you not the most talented people are the major influencers in society for good. It’s the people that have these disciplines in their lives. So be encouraged. Take what you’ve got. Play with the ball that’s been given to you. Be patient. Don’t be discouraged. Take these qualities and make them a part of your daily life, because the secret of your success is determining your daily agenda.

And watch as you begin to climb the road to success.

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Mark Cole:

Hey, Chris, man, good to be back in studio with you. I thought about how we ended with the challenge last week of this idea of go and spend time on your initiative. Now, all of you that’s just hopping in for the first time, you don’t know what we’re talking about. Go back. We’ll put it in the show notes. You want to listen to part one where John talked about teachability and initiative. And yet, Chris, I’ve spent a long time, not just the last week, talking about purifying our initiative. And that’s going to be really important as we dig into the three today, specifically the first one on passion.

What you’re passionate about linking that passion and initiative is super important. You’ve played sports at every level of the game. Talk a little bit about the importance of initiative when you’re on the practice field and turning initiative into passion when you’re on the playing field.

Chris Goede:

Yeah, that’s an interesting question as you think about this, john talks about when he talks about passion, is that is something that you have to prioritize in your life and what you want to accomplish? I think it allows you to spark innovation. It allows you to make changes. And when you asked that question, the first thing I thought about was the change that has to happen in the preparation of going into a game or a season. And that change that has to happen once it becomes game time. And if you’re not passionate about what you’re doing, then that’s not going to show up. And we all know passionate people. I may have one that’s with me today that I’m riding shotgun here with more.

Mark Cole:

You might also go home to it.

Chris Goede:

I wasn’t going to say that, but I’m not sure if she listens. She’ll probably listen to this one because you’ll probably tell it. But the fact that when you prioritize that and you know what your passion is, it doesn’t take as much talent as maybe somebody that is extremely talented that doesn’t have that passion, especially in the game of football, which we’re both big fans of, right? Sometimes passion can give you that little bit of that extra edge. And so when you think about that, what is that in your everyday life, right? And I know you I love this quote in here where John talks about, there are many things that will catch my eye, but there are only a few that catch my heart when it comes to what you’re doing and what we’re doing as an enterprise and what John is doing, and we’re carrying his legacy. You obviously are led by your heart, by that passion. Talk a little bit about the fact that maybe sometimes the talent is not there, but your passion and your drive and the things that go along with that allow you every day to lead at the highest level.

Mark Cole:

You know, it’s so funny that you say that. I don’t know if I’ve ever shared this, Chris, maybe even with you in one on one conversations, but I remember as a 1213 14 year old kid feeling overlooked. I was redheaded. I’m a lot more gray headed now than I was then. Redheaded 40 years ago. That was not the most popular color of hair. It’s still not, probably, but it really wasn’t back then. And I can remember being overlooked.

I can remember going home. And my mom was the leader in the home, but she was the leader outside the home, too. Just my mom. And my dad just didn’t broadcast it, but my mom was pulling the levers for whatever my dad was saying and all. We just loved my mom for that. But I remember asking her, I was probably around my 1314 year old self was going, hey, why don’t you kind of lead that meeting? You just told John to lead. And she said, I can’t. And I said, Why? She said, Because I’m a woman, and they don’t let women lead in that environment.

And I remember that, Chris. It really shook me at the overlooked potential of leadership because of some bias in the world around us now. It’s become very popular now, kind of. That’s probably a wrong thing to say because it’s not popular enough for us to try to remove the biases of people. That’s not true. It’s become a good talking point. It’s not really happening, so let me correct that. But I will tell you, early on in my life, I realized the biases against certain humans, and probably it was a personal experience.

The color of my hair, certainly it was indelibly placed in me. And my mom’s gender was holding her back in certain things that I watched her tell my dad what to say, and he’d go say him. And I’d go, mom, why don’t you just go say him? Let’s cut out the middleman and not really cut out my dad, but let’s cut out the so. Chris, when I come back to what’s passionate, what drives this passion, I’ll tell you, when I watch a movie, when I read a book and somebody is overlooked and somebody else, less qualified, less talented, and less affected, gets the opportunity than the other person, it’s not an underdog story because it’s not an underdog. They’re really the top dog that just the world around them won’t recognize it. It awakens me. John asked the question, what makes you sing? What makes you cry? What makes you dream? And I’ll tell you that for me it is that seeing someone that has tons of potential and not have a world around them that can handle that potential, it grabs me every time. And I go into myself to answer that question, because that really does waken me and awaken the passion within me.

The other thing I would say about passion is Liz Wiseman wrote a great book about maximizers and how maximizers in our life becomes minimizers. And I’ve said this before, but it bears repeating on talking about when you rely on passion more than talent, and I do, you can often overplay passion into intensity. John’s told me dozens of times, because he’s working with me still to this day on becoming a better communicator. And oftentimes in the absence of great content, I and others will compensate with great passion. But because it’s overplayed from stage, it comes across as intensity.

Chris Goede:

Got it?

Mark Cole:

And I’m working right now on making sure that I sound more believable with passion rather than unrealistic with intensity. And that balance, and whether it’s communication or leadership or with my kids, is a real fine balance that we all must consider when we’re going to overcompensate a lack of talent. In something with an enthusiasm. With that, sometimes we overplay the enthusiasm and it becomes intensity.

Chris Goede:

I like what you just said there when you said overplay maybe lack of talent, which you would say you’re a work in progress. You always admit that from stage. You also brought to our attention maybe a lack of content. So what do you then default to it is.

Mark Cole:

Let’s RA.

Chris Goede:

Even in some of our leadership team meetings and one on one, you say that, hey, guys, don’t mistake right here, right? This is my passion coming out. That may be intense, right? And so we actually have been on the receiving of that and have had to learn both of those. But I think the point you’re making here, when you don’t necessarily require talent, if you have that passion, can allow you to achieve certain things. You just got to make sure that you have that a little bit on governor. Now, one other thing I want to talk about. We had the privilege of just a couple of weeks ago with Marcus Buckingham in here, and he talked a little bit about loving work and not necessarily the emotional, the EQ side of loving at work, but loving what you do, right? And he said, hey, there’s a percentage. You got to be above 20%. You got to love what you do 20% of the time or greater to really stay engaged.

I want to also say, I think we’d be remiss. We often hear, just go do what you’re passionate about. You would admit to everybody, I think, that you’re not passionate about everything you do every day. Is that correct? But there is a good part of it, much greater than 20% that drives you, that helps maybe compensate for some of that talent.

Mark Cole:

I’m so glad that you said this, because I was trying to figure out Chris, even as we were talking, because I want to hit one thing pretty quickly. Although we could spend the rest of the time on this. I’m a passionate person. Already talked about that. I overplay passion to intensity. We talked about that. John talked about firefighters in here, and Jake made a funny comment because I have some great friends that are firefighters that are EMTs. They respond first responders often.

For all of our young leaders that might have missed the point, john was not criticizing firefighters. That’s serving us out there. Make no mistake, we honor our first responders. But what he is saying that sometimes people that have passion use that passion to put out somebody else’s fire. And I have to be careful. And you just brought this up. I’m just playing off what you said. I have to be careful.

Because most of the time and you can disagree with this. Honestly, you can. Right here on the podcast in front of 180,000 people. Most of the time, I’m the most passionate person in the room.

Chris Goede:

I would agree.

Mark Cole:

Okay, good pay raise for you. I’m just kidding. Here’s the problem with being the most passionate person in the room. If I don’t like what we’re talking about, I will utilize my passion to put water on what somebody else is passionate about. And as a passionate leader, oftentimes I find myself misusing, misrepresenting, creating malpractice on the beauty of the passion within me because I fight fires and put out the fire and the productivity and even the desire in others with my passion misplaced. And so I’m glad you brought that up, because those of us that have a large degree of passion coupled with those of us that love to express it, because I think you got just as much passion as I do. You just got more maturity. And when to demonstrate, well, I don’t know.

Chris Goede:

It’s maturity. It’s just different.

Mark Cole:

We’ll give it a good word of maturity at this point. You have a maturity to not overplay that passion that I sometimes have to be coached, open, reminded of, that I’m overplaying the passion. So don’t be a firefighter with your passion and don’t allow your lack of passion in one thing to minimize the passion somebody else might have in that thing.

Chris Goede:

Yeah, that’s good, and I appreciate you sharing that with us. I 100% agree. And we talk a lot about in leadership in John’s world, blind spots. And Mark, that’s not a blind spot, but Mark is saying, hey, this is something that’s a strength of mine, and blind spot is an overused strength right on the backside. You just naturally go so. So be aware of that. But then also, as we talk about not having talent, also understand that maybe you’re not as passionate as Mark. Maybe you’re on the side of the coin that I am, that it’s okay to bring some of that passion to a certain thing that’ll help you when maybe you’re not as talented.

Okay, let’s talk about the fourth one that John talks about here, where he says, hey, again, this doesn’t require talent. We’re going to talk about courage.

Mark Cole:

Yeah.

Chris Goede:

When he said that, the first thing I thought about was, man, I think sometimes people are either courageous or they’re not. Is this something that’s a learned skill? Was my first question to you. And then we started briefly talking about 2020 and things you’ve led us through. And even over the last two or three years, the results of all that have grown your courage. Obviously, you were very teachable going back to point number one from our previous lesson, which if you haven’t listened to, I encourage you go back and check that one out, but you’ve grown into that. But is this a skill that you feel like is something that people can develop, can learn to a greater depth, that allows them to become a little bit more successful? If that’s the word we’re using without a certain skill.

Mark Cole:

Yeah, I do think that to answer your question, I think that your ability to tap into courage first and foremost without anything, in a comparison standpoint, of you do better than others or you do better than you did last time. It gives you the ability to try things you would not try. That most of the time you believe requires talent. I’ve watched people accomplish great things not because of talent, but because they had the courage to try something they did not have talent with. And oftentimes talent can be developed in an area that you chose courage before you chose ability, that’s good talent can follow. Courage doesn’t always follow. In fact, I believe talent will follow. If you’ll use courage, will you still be the best in the world? No.

But will you be able to do something neat? I remind all of us sports people about the movie Rudy, right? It was not Rudy’s talent. It was not his stature. He looked a little bit like I looked standing next to you, just a little run of a guy. At the same time, his courage inspired the most talented to be even better. See, courage has a multiplier effect that talent doesn’t. Talent is a minimizer. I see somebody like you, you have all the ability to play tight end, to play in, to do all the stuff you did in school. And I go, I can’t do that.

God did not give me the genetics. I go out and do that. And then there’s a lot more people encouraged because are inspired because I took the courage to do it. You mentioned 2020, and I really want to hit this because John made the statement here, and it’s in your notes. Those of you download the bonus resource, he says, courage is an everyday test. And I got to tell you the way that I looked at courage in 2020, because as many of you know, I’m a person of faith, and so I’m very inspired and was particularly inspired by the story of Moses and Joshua in 2020 because John was giving me all this responsibility. And so I just started studying Joshua and chose my word of the year to be two words. Very rarely do that.

And it was strength and courage. And I had this utopian feeling that if I would study courage all year long, I would all of a sudden build courage as if it was a structure. Courage is not a structure. It is a fuel. And when used, it has to be replaced. A structure, something you attain. You can go back to it. It’s a learning.

It’s a monument. Courage is not a monument. Courage is a fossil fuel. Courage is something that is expendable, and you have to keep going back to it, because I spent all year talking strength and courage, and the next year dad Gummet, Chris different challenges came up, different things came up, and I had to go back and go, well, where’s my courage? Where’s that monument of courage? All that stuff I learned? Where’s the pillar that I built? And I went, oh, it’s not it’s a tank and it’s empty. Go put some more courage back into it. Courage is an everyday test. But if you will then go down and look at these seven points, we won’t go back and repeat all of them, unless you want to dig into one or two of them. But you look at those seven points that John talks about, it is an everyday test.

And guess what? When you get done testing and passing the test today, it’s coming back tomorrow and you will have to go back and get a strategy to continue feeding yourself, filling your tank of courage.

Chris Goede:

So we’re not going to go over these. They are in your show notes. Let me ask you a question. As you think back during that time, or maybe even right now, we all need courage. It’s an everyday thing, as John talked about. How do you go about doing that? Mark, how do you go and I love that analogy. It’s the fuel. I had never really thought about it like know versus kind of a monument.

How do you go about doing that? Is it different depending on the season of where you’re at in your growth and your leadership? How do you refuel that?

Mark Cole:

It’s painful.

Chris Goede:

You mean you just don’t pull up, put your credit card in and put.

Mark Cole:

The gas it’s a funny way you said, how do you go about that? And I just wanted to say painfully, yeah. And I’ll tell you why. Because while John is teaching this Chris, I got something at a very deep it’s a parenting issue. It’s something very deep. Not prepared to talk about it from the impact that it would have, but very, very deep with Stephanie. My wife and I are home, what’s going on, particularly with our youngest daughter. And I’m sitting here and I have let this thing become so big that it’s paralyzed me. And I literally listen to this and says we need courage to change when it’s easier to remain comfortable.

And I have become comfortable over the last three weeks of letting this just rest in our family rather than the courage of exploring it, to see what it would show me, the light that it would shed for me. And then he goes on and he says, we need courage to express our convictions when others challenge us. And oftentimes we do this flight or fight thing, right, we fight, but we’re not fighting with courage. We’re fighting with a resolve that needs we need to have the courage to let our convictions be challenged, not the ignorance to defend convictions that should be challenged so good. And I’m sitting here going, it’s painful. That’s how you do it. You just deal with the pain that you’ve got to go back in and deal with things courageously because right around the corner is another giant, is another obstacle, is another challenge. And if you don’t keep filling that tank with courage, you’ll become comfortable.

Chris Goede:

I just watched physically the painfulness it was talking about that. Listeners, this may be my last podcast. I may not be back, but I can see it right in your continents in talking about that. And then I’m sitting there going, man, John’s brilliant because as I think about listening to you, as we think about these things, everything you just talked about, you have to have teachability, even that example we just talked about, in order to have that courage, then you got to have the initiative. In order to refuel, you have to have the passion. And now we’re talking about a courage. So it all goes together, right? And all of these things, by the way, listeners and those that are watching on YouTube, remember, these are things that don’t require talent. This is for you just to dig in.

Okay. With all of that, I think you need some encouragement as we go to last point. Yeah, we’re going to wrap up here. But when John talked about this, the first thing that came to mind, I shared this with you. You shared something several weeks ago in a podcast or we were talking or I heard you say something, I was listening to something that you did. And it just every time I have the chance to talk to a leader, a team, my family, whatever, this comes to mind, and I don’t know if it’s just the season that we’re in and everybody needs encouragement, this doesn’t take talent to do that. I think even deeper than that, as John talks about this in the last point about belief, we are big about putting ten on people’s heads. And I mean, sometimes we do it to a fault, maybe more than not.

But you made a statement, you were said, we are in a world, we’re in a space as people, and we’re in the people business, and we believe everybody deserves to be led well, that there is a belief deficit in all of us right now. And I think even leaders that are younger in their career and maybe not even in their career yet have this so deep and rooted into their system. It’s going to be a problem. Will you just unpack that as we kind of wrap up and we talk about, man, we’ve got to have belief in people and belief in ourselves as something that doesn’t take talent. Will you just talk a little bit about that in your heart behind why you say that, what you see, and why it’s important that we address you.

Mark Cole:

Know, as you were talking, and even when John was talking, I was reminded of a truett Cathy quote. John Maxwell’s dad, Melvin Maxwell, had a very similar quote. But here’s how you know when someone needs encouraging, it’s when they’re breathing.

Chris Goede:

Yeah.

Mark Cole:

And we’re living in a world, Chris, certainly right now, with all the unrest among nations, among people groups, among races, and spirituality or religion, rather, and all this, we’re living in an extraordinary time of restlessness and discouragement. And so when we talk about this lesson is so appropriate because it all distills down to things that we all can make a decision and do better. That’s right. Not our personality. Does. Not drive. It not our gifting. And so we see this world that absolutely needs encouraging, and they’re not getting it.

They’re getting fake. They’re getting critique like never before, or they’re getting forced into somebody else’s journey. And at the same time, we’re challenging people that if they don’t say what we believe, we’ll cancel them.

Chris Goede:

Right?

Mark Cole:

So now here’s what we do. We’re struggling a little bit. We need some encouragement, but we’re kind of concerned of whether we can say anything, because what if I say the wrong thing? And oftentimes when you’re discouraged, guess what? You say the wrong thing. Can anybody out there feel me right now? I am the most susceptible to putting my foot in my mouth when I’m discouraged because the resolve is down. And yet we’re at an all time high of discouragement. I was just recently, a couple weeks ago, I was talking with our Vietnamese Maxwell leadership team, and a girl got on and asked the question. She said, I am so positive. I have taught myself to be an encourager.

And she was bright. I mean, her energy, her smile. I was like, I want to talk to you the rest of the day. And she said, and you and Chris Robinson was on the call with me and she said, you guys make me feel like you’re as encouraging as I am. And she said, what do you do with the people that tell you that your encouragement is fake? Now, we’ve now made encouragement taboo, and yet the thing that you and I realize about our kids, about this next generation, about our work environments, is the need for encouragement has never been greater.

Chris Goede:

Yeah.

Mark Cole:

And let me say this about encouragement. Encouragement is better when it is given.

Chris Goede:

With specifics, no doubt, 100%.

Mark Cole:

If you want to just go, hey, you look good today, and then three people later say, you look good today. And if you don’t, go, you look good today. That’s your color. You look nice today. I like that haircut.

Chris Goede:

Yeah.

Mark Cole:

I would encourage all of us to be a little bit more specific in our encouragement. Take time that’s good to find something that puts specifics on it, because John Maxwell has said this often over the last four or five years, and it is as true, if not more so today than it was when I first heard him say it. And that is, there’s a leadership sadness that’s going on. And it’s coming from people that have lost hope, that are critical of hope, givers, and that have decided they are going to be resistant to coach. So you lose it, you become critical of it, and then you start resisting it. And we’re in a place right now, Chris, to where people are resistant of somebody saying, hey, there is a better way to state your discontent. There is a better way to show your to. Everyone needs the encouragement, but no one wants to hear it.

Chris Goede:

Yeah. Well, as we wrap up again, this is a two part series that Mark and I are talking about today. If you missed the first one, I want to encourage you to go back, because there are things that don’t require talent that you need to be aware of, just as we kind of recap. Number one, teachability. We spent a lot of time talking about this, and it’s something that we all need. Second one was initiative. The third one was Passion, which it was great to start this episode off today with Mark, who’s extremely passionate, and talk a little bit about that. The fourth one was courage.

And then the last one was encouragement. There is a belief deficit out there. People do need encouragement. And here’s the deal. It doesn’t take a certain talent to encourage people. Just takes a little bit of awareness. And I love what you said. I love this tangible thing.

Be specific. Just don’t go around. Be specific. Hey, that jacket looks really good on you. I like that color. But that goes a lot further, and I think it’s a great point.

Mark Cole:

Well, I love this, and I’ve saved it till the end right here. But Albert Einstein said I have no special talent. Now, just pause right there and think about that right there. I have no special talent, says Albert Einstein. Einstein I’m only passionately curious. And I think it’s true that we as leaders, it’s why I spend so much time talking about my most favorite Maxwell Leadership book. It’s a special again today for those of you that listened last week, it’s the book that I held up last week and I’m holding up for all of you not listening or watching, rather from YouTube. I’m holding up the book.

Developing the leader within you 2.0 and we’ll put that in the show notes. You can get a discount by using the Code podcast. But I really want to challenge you. I really do. And Chris, just you did a wonderful job. Take these five things we’ve given in the last two weeks and you will supersede a similarly talented person, because these five things are difference makers, I’m reminded. Speaking of difference makers, I’m reminded, of course, our podcast always comes out on Wednesday for those of you that are waiting patiently for it to come out live. And so this Saturday, I mean, today’s Wednesday, if you’re listening to it live, this Saturday in the US.

Is Veterans Day. And I just thought, Chris, that what a moment. Speaking of courage, I mean, a lot of these people don’t go in because they’re the most talented or the gifted. They’re just committed. They go in to make a difference. And for all of you veterans that listen to our podcast, particularly those in the US. Because Saturday we celebrate you. But veterans around the world, you have fought for something bigger than you.

You have defended your country. We honor you. We’re thankful to you. And so happy Veterans Day to you. You mean a lot. I thought we would highlight a listener comment, as I always do, from Dabney. Dabney listened to the podcast, make your future bigger than your past. And this is what Dabney said.

I think this message is very relevant for veterans leaving the military and joining the corporate world. I have heard myself and other veterans say, and again, thank you, Dabney. And veterans heard them say, nothing that I do as a civilian will come close to achievements in uniform. When I led this podcast, Dabney says and challenges us to build a future by looking forward and not backward. Chris Mike Brock that’s why we do what we do. And why we do what we do is so you can do it better, because everyone deserves to be led well.