Leadership Landmines (Part 1)

Mark Cole:

Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. This is the podcast that adds value to leaders who multiply value to others. My name is Mark Cole, and today, Chris Goede and I will begin a new series where John Maxwell will teach on ten leadership. Landmines and then Chris and I will begin to walk through, perhaps painfully, how we have stepped on those landmines and give you some application that I know will help you. These landmines are areas of leadership that, if neglected, can cost you, cost you and your culture, and will cost your organization success dearly. So let’s learn what they are and learn how to avoid them together. This week, we’ll talk about landmines one through five. And then next week, we’ll cover numbers six through ten. If you would like to watch this episode on YouTube, please visit maxwellpodcast.com/YouTube. And if you’d like to download the bonus resource for today’s episode, please visit MaxwellPodcast.com/Landmines. All right, grab your pen, grab your paper. Here is John Maxwell.

John Maxwell:

Let’s talk about leadership. Landmines. There are some things that I’ve been wanting to talk about for a period of time, and this is one of them. In fact, I’ve been sitting on this subject because, as you know, I’m continually writing and usually have four to six books at a time. I’m working on just cultivating the ideas, trying to crock pot them, and this is one of them. This is going to be a book. I’m not sure if it’s going to be a book in two years or three years or four years, but this is going to be a book because I constantly see leaders. I’m talking about the best leaders. I’m talking about leaders who are success. I’m talking about leaders who are already there. They’re building their companies, they’re building their organizations. They’ve got a great team. I’m talking about sometimes the best of the best who all of a sudden get blown up. And I just look at them, I say, oh, my goodness, what happened? Why did they do that? How could they be where they are and violate this law or this principle in such a way that they’re losing money in their business or they’re having to back up and start all over again? It always bothers me. So I’ve been working very hard on landmines that leaders sometimes step on that blow them out of the picture. Just take a moment. If you’ll look in the beginning part of the lesson, the first paragraph, many leaders never achieve their potential because they’re blowing up, but problems that they never see coming. And our desire is to learn the most common leadership pitfalls in this lesson and how to avoid them. I could first of all, tell you that everything I’m going to talk about today at one time have stepped on one of these landmines. Okay? So you’re listening to an injured leader. Okay? If you could see me, I have both arms in slings you know what I mean? I’ve just come out of traction. In other words, we all at Tie step on landmines. And I can remember when I first started. As you know, I started off as a pastor in Hillham, Indiana, a little country church. And I’ll never forget they had a real little lobby. I mean, a real little lobby. Well, the church only seated 85, so it has to be a little lobby. It’s kind of like a phone booth. Okay, now get the picture. And there’s this ugly, ugly, ugly painting on the wall in the lobby. And the first thing I thought when I saw this, I thought, oh, that’s an ugly painting. I just thought, who would want an ugly painting there? I mean, who would put an ugly painting there? Who would keep an ugly painting there? So the second week I walked in, it was still there, and I thought, you know, that needs to be taken down. So here I am, I’m 22 years old, in my first church, with no regard to tradition, with no regard to who could have painted it and why it’s there and who knows who. And all the relationship structure that comes in a church that only runs about 60 people. And there’s a reason why they only run about 60 people. I took the painting down, and the rest of the people started coming to church that morning. And, I mean, I was in the sanctuary. They were gathering in the lobby, and I could tell that there was a sense of hostility, and I began to feel negative energy. And I walked in there, and they were all asking the same question who took down Grandma’s painting? And stupid me, I said, Well, I took it down. It’s an ugly picture. It’s one thing to step on a landmine. It’s another thing to want to camp out on the landmine, to bounce up and down and say, could you blow me up some more? I got one limb left. Could we take care of that one? It’s such an ugly picture. I knew nobody would want it up there, and I put it in the back room. Bad mistake. You see, that’s when I realized they could have forgiven me for all kind of gross sins. I could have run off the church’s secretary, and it would have been better than taking Grandma’s painting off the wall. You see, the lesson I learned that day is never tear down the fence until you find out why it was put up. Oh, my, that was a landmine. So let’s do some leadership landmines, okay? And they’re not an impriority. They’re just ten of them. Landmine number one. This will surprise you. Landmine number one. Today’s success. It’s a huge landmine. I see people all the time unknown to them because they’re enjoying the seeds of their success, mess up because they want to stay in that vein. It is so true. Right beside today’s success, I have in your notes what got you here won’t keep you here. And that is so very, very true. If you’re still living off of two months AGO’s success and saying, oh, man, I tell you, it’s never going to get any better, and I’m going to embrace this. We always want to be like this, and this is what we are, and this is who we are, and we want to hold it just here. Life is not a snapshot. It would be wonderful at the pinnacle of your success if you could take a picture of it and say, nothing will ever change. But it will change. And if you don’t change with it, what got you there yesterday won’t allow you to stay there today. Yesterday ended last night. Now, it’s also true about failure. The ability to let go is absolutely huge and very important to what I’m talking about right here. The ability to let go of your successes, the ability to let go of your failures, that is absolutely essential. Let me put it this way. If what you did five years ago still satisfies you, you’re not doing anything today. Worthwhile I look up stuff I did five years ago, and I want to apologize. I want to send out a public apology. Please forgive me. I’m so sorry I put that on you. It’s terrible. You see a sign of growth in your life is when what you did yesterday no longer thrills you. Not because you’re bored, but because you’re growing. And that landmine of today’s success so many times, we want to stay right there, and it’s going to get you. I promise you. It’s only a matter of time till it blows up. Landmine number two, losing touch with your people. It’s a landmine an isolated leader is an ineffective leader. We’ve all heard the statement it’s a bad one. A leader didn’t say it, so don’t ever think a leader did. But everybody says a leader said it. But they don’t know anything about leadership. So they say all kind of stupid things about leadership. When you hear the expression, well, it’s lonely at the top. It’s lonely at the top. When you’re the leader, it’s lonely up here. Leader never said that. If you’re at the top all alone, nobody’s following you, get off the mountain. Go down and find the people. What a thought. Connect when leaders lose touch with people. When a leader becomes isolated, I promise you that leader will become ineffective. You’ve got to walk slowly through the crowd. You got to listen to your people. You’ve got to hear what they’re saying. You got to sense what they’re feeling. And you got to hang. You just got to hang. Losing touch with people. Major landmine number three, betrayal of trust. In fact, that’s a landmine we’re seeing major corporate leaders stepping on right now. Is that not true? I was just interviewed two days ago while I was here from a reporter in the States, one of the major wire services on what’s happening in corporate America. All they want to talk about is why do leaders betray trust? Why do leaders say one thing and do another thing? This whole issue, you see, leadership functions on the basis of trust. That’s the whole foundation of leadership. In your notes, Warren Bennett claims that trust is one of the six basic ingredients of leadership. Integrity is the basis of trust, which is not so much an ingredient of leadership as it is a product. It is the one quality that cannot be acquired, but must be earned. It is given by coworkers and followers, and without it, the leader cannot function. Trust is the foundation upon which relationships in every setting are built. And receiving trust from others is a result of three things. Number one, character basically who you are on the inside. Number two is competence, what you’re able to do. And three is consistency. Character, competence and consistency. Those three must mesh together for you to build trust and to receive trust from your people as a leader. Landmine number four, failure to think realistically. Max Dupree said it right. The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. I love Garrison Keeler anyway, but I love what he said. Sometimes you need to look reality in the eye and deny it. Boy, don’t you know people like that? They’ll just look reality in the eye and deny it. We played golf yesterday and let me just take 30 seconds and have fun, because what I found is most golfers are not realistic. I mean, they really aren’t. I mean, they don’t intentionally lie, but they lie. They just aren’t realistic. When they’re 160 yards out in picking the club that they’re going to pick. They pick the club where if they hit it perfectly, they can get it there. And I watch their swing and I say, the odds are low about this. It just cracks me up. I mean, golf will tell you more about the character of a person than I know. And I always want to say, I’ve been watching your swing and you really haven’t hit one perfect yet. What would make you think you’re going to hit this one perfect? Now just get realistic in your game. Very simple. Many years ago, I did this. I do all my club selection based on the fact that I’ll hit the ball about 90%, not 100%. So when I swing and I don’t quite get the ball quite clean, like I need to get the ball quite clean, the ball goes the distance I needed to go. Now, if I hit the ball well, I’m ten yards, twelve yards beyond the flag. The odds are I’ll hit a lot more imperfect shots than perfect shots because I’m not a real good golfer. Now, all I’m saying is the realism the realism or a guy didn’t do very good on a hole and you say, what did you get there? He said, Well, I’ll take a six. I didn’t ask what you would take, I asked what you did. If we’re going to do the I take game, I’ll just take a 36 and not play. I’ll just put my score in before I play. I mean, we don’t do it on purpose. We’re not liars. We’re not in touch, nobody’s home. I’m having fun. I took the six rules of Jack Welch and really helped me on realism, especially number one, which says, control your destiny or someone else will. Number two, face reality as it is, not as it was or as you wish it were. Three, be candid with everyone. It’s amazing what happens when you’re just honest. Honest is an amazing quality. You know, it’s a happy day for your life when you look at somebody in the confidence and the privacy of their own life and say, you don’t do that very well. You’re not any good at that. Let me help you. We won’t do that anymore. Or I don’t do this very well. Oh, my goodness. It’s amazing what could happen in helping develop people. I’m going to make a statement here. I’m going to go on real quickly because I’m into developing and equipping people. You’ll never develop and equip your people effectively until you’re honest with them. Just get honest. Don’t try to make up for their ineffectiveness and the things they don’t do well. Help them out. Don’t manage lead change before you have to. It’s just some great stuff at Welch’s. Okay? Landmine number five, poor timing. Poor timing. This one’s an easy one you step on because timing is very difficult to understand. In your notes, the difference between a home run and a long foul ball is timing just a timing issue. It’s not a power issue. The proverb writer says, make hay while the sun shines. That’s smart. Go fishing during harvest. That’s stupid. It’s a timing issue. The wrong action at the wrong time equals disaster. I’ve seen that. And the wrong action at the right time equals a mistake. The right action at the wrong time equals resistance. And the right action at the right time equals success. You got that? There are three seasons of timing that every leader needs to understand. Well, I’ve given many, many lectures on this because I can tell you this is a lecture I’ll give till I die. Because if you can understand these three seasons of timing, this is when people will change when they heard enough that they have to, when they learn enough that they want to, and when they receive enough that they’re able to. Those are the three seasons of timing. And as a leader, watch the tide of timing constantly. Seek advice from successful leaders, those who are especially seasoned or mature. In my seeking advice from the people that I seek advice from, I seek more advice from the timing of the decision than the decision itself. I’ve been around the block long enough as a leader that most of the time, not all the time, but 95% of the time, I know the right decision. So now when I sit down with a seasoned person who’s gone through it, what I’m asking them is not, is the decision right? I’ll throw out the decision. If it was wrong, they’d say, hey, John, that’s a stupid decision. But that’s not really what I’m after. Most of the time, I give them the contest and I say, Is now the time? Is it the right time?

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Mark Cole:

Hey, welcome back. I was laughing, Chris, as John talks about he walks with a limp because of stepping on every one of these landmines. And to be honest with you, my edification, my encouragement today was to realize that John Maxwell stepped on landmines too. Because, Chris, you and I, our leadership getting to be in the leadership iconic organization of John Maxwell, we step on landmines. And I think our goal today with you, Chris and I, is just to help you work through these some things to be aware of, and then perhaps if you stepped on those landmines, maybe some things that will help you recover and continue the effectiveness of your leadership. So, Chris, I’m glad you’re here today, buddy boy.

Chris Goede:

I’m glad. This is a visual that he lays out for us that I think about. And I go, oh, I can. Just like John said, the only way he’s able to speak to all of these is that he’s experienced them. And I love the visual of landmines, because as leaders, we make progress and then unintentionally, maybe intentionally, sometimes we blow things up, right? And oftentimes we get hurt and we have a limp from them and so super excited to just jump in. I want to let our audience know, those that are watching us on YouTube, mark and I just had a little conversation before we got started and said, man, there’s so much meat here. It’s a great lesson from John. Where do we camp out? Because we could talk about each one of these. And so we just picked two of them that we’re going to dig into and just share some personal experiences. I’m going to ask Mark to share more of his personal experiences than mine. And then I’m just going to moderate this and then step out stage left. But the first one that we both agreed on, and I want to share this and this is just kind of in our DNA is the first one where John talks about, hey, we want to make sure that today’s success doesn’t really keep us from moving forward. We like to talk about it as complacency around here. Growth is one of our top values. And so what are we doing to continue to challenge ourselves and to grow? Let me set it up this way. When we see leaders and or you and I both have been in this place before where maybe we thought our stuff didn’t stink, we’re looking at our successes, we’re excited, we’re celebrating. That what ends up happening as leaders, and I think you would agree with this, we get a little bit slower, right? We become less decisive. That’s never good. We develop bad habits. And then one of the things I wrote down here is all of a sudden what we talk about. And John has taught us about blind spots. We have a ton of them and we get more of them. Talk to the leaders that are listening here about the importance of, hey, this is going to happen. You’ve had it happen. I’ve had it happen. We’ve got to make sure that we don’t stay complacent as a leader because otherwise it will be detrimental, like you said in our intro to the culture, to the organization, to your leadership.

Mark Cole:

Well, one of the things when you mentioned out the complacency or that you just kind of got entitled, I think another huge landfall here or landmine here is you lose the hunger. You just lose that desire to win because you’ve won so much, because you are winning, because it’s a winning environment. On the podcast and speaking, I try to be very candid that there are two times that yesterday’s success, today’s success, I allowed to almost propel me into a false sense of security that tomorrow was going to be successful too. As a 20 year old, 22, 23 year old, I was one of the youngest recognized leaders in our organization. They voted me in and I allowed myself to listen to everybody else’s perception of me and lose my own perception of myself. It was a landmine. That success was a liar to me. My perceived effectiveness by those around me made me believe the external visual part of my leadership was more important than the internal. And I talk about it all the time, every time I hold up a book and I say developing the leader within you 2.0, because I stopped developing myself because I was growing and being recognized in that growth. The second time that I would come to that is I’ve been John Maxwell, CEO for years. Double digit growth, 400 and 5525 percent growth over the first six years as CEO, and you kind of get into that coasting and lose a little bit of that hunger. I didn’t stop developing myself on the inside. I’ve been there, done that, learned that lesson. Challenges. I’ve stepped on another landmine. Does that mean I’ve blown up both legs? I’m not sure. It’s a different reason. It’s a different cause, Chris. But leaders, today’s success will stop you from growing and stretching till tomorrow if you’re not constantly growing, if you’re not constantly challenging yourself. The last three years for me, has been a wake up call that just because I was successful as somebody else’s CEO does not give me an automatic hall pass to success as my own, my company’s CEO. There’s a different skill set. It’s why I, without apology, challenge everyone to read this book, 15 Laws of Growth. Those of you that are listening, I’m holding up John’s book, 15 invaluable Laws of Growth, because the day you stop growing is the day that yesterday’s success, today’s success has become your enemy, and you’re headed toward a landmine that growth, that awareness. In other words, going back to what I said, that hunger is what will stop you from becoming complacent or unaware and watching for landmines. One landmine got me that I was bigger on the outside than inside. Second line got me that success as a CEO was success as a CEO. No, that’s not true. There is a different skill set that has to be led or that has to be prevalent in us, or today’s success will destroy us.

Chris Goede:

Let me go a little bit deeper here for just 1 second. John teaches, and we’re a byproduct of this that momentum as an organization may make you feel a little bit better as a leader than you really are or maybe a little bit healthier of an organization than we really are. And I love how you kind of broke it down, said, hey, listen, when we’re talking about this with today’s success, there’s two ways to look at it individually. You address that, then also organizationally. And John, I was just thinking about this quote when you were talking about John saying, hey, just remember, guys, momentum is a powerful thing. I think he says it solves 80% of your problems for those that are listening to us. So go find momentum. You’ve been really challenging and going after momentum for us as an organization. But one of the things that we got to be aware of is that that momentum can actually maybe make it feel like we’re being successful, and it can actually create a little bit of this landmine that we’re stepping on, and we don’t really realize it till a year or two years later. Talk just quickly, I’m off script a little bit here on us, but talk a little bit about that momentum and how that can cloud our leadership. Lens, and all of a sudden, we step on a landmine that maybe we weren’t ready for.

Mark Cole:

Yeah. So this just hit me. This may not sound very good. If it doesn’t, don’t write it down. If it sounds good, then go make.

Chris Goede:

Then I said it.

Mark Cole:

Yeah, exactly. It’s Chris Cody. So I think momentum can do three things for you. One is it can give you a false sense of security. Right. John says it like this. He says, don’t confuse a tailwind with momentum. You may be leader being having momentum and having growth because somebody else created a draft and you’re just drafting. Don’t confuse that. That’s a false sense of security. There’s also momentum that gives us a false sense of identity. We think that success is happening because of those around us. We think we’re creating momentum. And what happens is when any leader believes that they’re the source of momentum rather than the team around them, they have just put a bottleneck on that organization. They may not get there. So you have momentum as a false sense of security, momentum as a false sense of identity. Then I think you have momentum that really can bring that intensity and that movement that you’re wanting. And I believe that that momentum is the momentum that is generated by hunger going back. It is momentum that it really is driven off of a sense that we can turn an organization around. I’m watching momentum happen in this setting, and this is what I call momentum bringing maturity. So it can bring a false sense of security and can bring a false sense of identity. But momentum that is authentic and sustainable is momentum that matures you.

Chris Goede:

That’s good.

Mark Cole:

It brings this maturity that says, I’ll tell you this, Chris. You and I are leading in a difficult time right now, and I’m watching our team realize we’re maturing, and we’re realizing that our leadership can stand the test of time, that’s longevity, it can generate growth, that’s opportunity, but it can also create sustainability. And when we begin to realize, I know for me, when I lost everything as an individual, you can’t scare me with losing everything anymore. I’ve already lost everything and came through. When you, as a leader, figure out how to generate true momentum. Not momentum that’s off of a season, off of somebody else, but truly turning an organization around. It’ll bring a maturity to your leadership. And that’s what we want here.

Chris Goede:

Yeah. And I love the differentiation that you just gave us about momentum and the reason I asked that question. I think that it’s key for our listeners all around the world and those that are watching us to understand. Some people look at success as a destination. I wanted to just bring to the table that momentum is on our way to success. But by the way, you can become complacent on your way to success. And I wanted you to unpack that, and I didn’t want our listeners to think, oh, well, when I become successful, when my organization achieves goals, then I need to be aware of no, no, it could be on the way that we need to be aware of it as well. Before we move to the next point, I want to read you this quote that I grabbed, thinking that we’d be talking a little bit about this today from a leadership author, Warren Bennett, and he talks really about how if we become complacent and we step on those landmines, we really tend to become a manager more than a leader. And here at Maxwell Leadership, we believe in leadership, and we believe every single individual out there is a leader. And this is the quote that he says, and I just want to leave you with this before we move on to the next point. The manager does things right and has their eye on the bottom line. The leader does the right thing, right? Which may not be being complacent, does the right thing and has their eye on the horizon. So always challenging, always growing, always looking for what is next. And I think that’s just a great little quote there for us to keep in mind as we think about how do we avoid that landmine. All right, as we shift into this next one, we were laughing before we got started. We were like, hey, guys, we’ll be done in no time. And I looked at Mark and I was like, Mark, you understand when you and start talking about leadership, we’re never on time because Jake, our producer, is like, Goede, what’s your end stop time? And I was like, don’t worry about it. I want to talk about the last one that John mentioned as he taught us today on landmines. And I want to talk about poor timing. I know in my life, personally and professionally, I have a lot of poor timing on decisions. Sometimes when I speak, sometimes when I don’t speak. And leadership requires patience, but also urgency and time to move forward and make decisions. And John talks about this where he talks about the four different things. He says, hey, and I’m going to go through them, but then I want to come back and I want you to pick one of them, and I want you to talk a little bit about the impact on your leadership and as you lead, just some examples out of that, maybe some challenges that you have there. He says the wrong action at the wrong time, I’ve done this before is a complete disaster. Just ask my wife. The second one, he says, the wrong action at the right time is a mistake. The third one, the right action, we’re doing the right thing. Maybe it’s just not the right time. We’re going to get resistance from our people, from our team, where we’re going, and then finally, the right action at the right time. That’s what. We all want that is success. So, really, I think we do all four of these. I don’t want you to talk about the fourth one, the right action at the right time success. We know what that is. Pick one of the top three and talk to those that are listening, those that are avid followers of our podcast about this from your personal leadership experience.

Mark Cole:

Yeah, I think as I look at all of these, obviously you said the right action at the right time is where we want to be. That’s success. But as I look at all of these, I feel the battle scar wounds that John was talking about. I feel the moments to where, oh, my goodness, I had the wrong action at the wrong time. And it felt like a double whammy. I feel like I look back at times and I had the wrong action, but I had the right know. And then the one that really disturbs me or challenges me the most is number three, the right action at the wrong time. And let me tell you why. As you were just kind of going through that, I went, boy, which one do I feel the greatest sting from?

Chris Goede:

Yeah.

Mark Cole:

And I think if you look back, I get asked often, hey, Mark, what was your greatest leadership failure as John Maxwell, CEO? And it was the book launch, Intentional Living. It’s a great book. Go pick it up. It was incredible. But why was that so bad? So it was a $1.4 million technology bus. The book was there. The book was good. We wanted to make technology drive this 30 day window of doing good for the world around you, be intentional with it. And we literally never got it off the ground. And we promised the world, we promised our coaches, and it was 1.6. But I’ll tell you, the lesson was not the $1.6 million. The lesson was not a failed book. The book’s still there, still doing good. The challenge was when I realized I let technology and systems drive vision rather than serve vision. And to this day, I realized that I had the right action, but it was the wrong time to try to let technology be the reason that we would launch when we would launch. So we delayed timelines. Speaking of the right action but the wrong time, we allowed timing to be developed not by the vision, not by the market need, but by the systems and processes that we put into place. Let me further illustrate. So, for years, John and I have been working on what legacy succession would look like for his influence in the world. And I have vetted every single vision, point or vision thought by him. And we love every one of them. I’ve told you guys, perhaps the crying on the plane story of John really capturing this vision is bigger than me. It’s beyond me. I’ve told you about John handing me the baton. We’ve had some really big moments, Chris. And yet what I have learned is too much of a good thing can be too much of a good thing. And what I mean by that is I am convinced that actions and vision that we’re chasing today is absolutely the right thing. But is it the right time? And here’s why I dread that one more it talked about. John said, the challenges is resistance. I do believe it’s resistance. The team begins to go. Wait, is this possible? But I’ll tell you what’s even worse than that is if you’ve got the right thing, but you mishandled the timing. Getting the team to refire in excitement when the timing does come is harder than it was the first time. The first time they borrow your belief. The next time they say, Convince me. And it’s much harder to let people borrow your belief in your vision than it is to convince them that this time, now is the right thing. And as I look forward to our next three to four years, Chris, my greatest challenge is not the right actions. Man, we got a great thing going. We got great team, great enthusiasm, great momentum. The challenge is going to be when we begin to institute some of the things that was the right thing, but at the wrong time, instituting them again is going to be double work on us as a leader. Because reigniting people to get a vision the second time is harder than it was the first time.

Chris Goede:

I think what you just mentioned not only that same decision or that same thing when you talk about it being the wrong time. I think as a leader to your point in this one, it only gets harder for every action that you want to roll out because they’re going to question you. And the timing of what you’re doing.

Mark Cole:

To continue to do that. I’m sorry to interrupt you.

Chris Goede:

You’re fine.

Mark Cole:

But it’s why Truett Cathy said, don’t talk to me about getting bigger. Get better, and let the market tell us. Here’s what he understood. It is so much better to let the market determine when we get bigger than our business plan determine when we get bigger. Because somewhere along the way, I guarantee, if we were able if he was alive and we were able to ask him today, somewhere along the way, he had the right idea but the wrong time. And he realized to get the right idea, reignited for the right time was harder on the team. It’s why my friend David Green, Hobby Lobby, said, man, there was a time to where I made a decision. I’m going to ask myself the importance of this decision 70 years from now. Picture that. Imagine me and you wondering today, what is going to be the impact of the decision we’re making today 70 years from now? Most leaders don’t think like that. They go, what will be the benefit on the 15th of the last day of the month when I get a payday, what will be the benefit to driving the bottom line? But these great leaders, they get this unbelievable awareness that timing is so important. Not just having the right idea, but the timing of how to implement and drive toward that idea is super important.

Chris Goede:

I think to make it as simple as I can, I think about the what, the how, and the when, right? They’re going to get the what, they’re going to understand the how. But man, that when. As leaders, to your point, if you really don’t dial in on that, you really have a chance to make or break a sure take a couple of minutes.

Mark Cole:

I’m not sure if I’m super excited about next week or not. I’ve got five landmines, john, thank you very much. I’ll check out. I don’t think I need more. But honestly, podcast family, podcast listeners, you do want to come back for part two, because John’s going to give us five more landmines, leadership landmines that we need to be aware of as we lead our teams. And I’m so convicted on this. I’m glad I got a week to process because it’s there. Hey, I like to always close, or a lot of times close with a listener comment. I was on a conference call with our Maxwell Leadership Team this past Saturday, and the first caller that came in, I teach a little bit, and then we open up for Q A. And the first caller said, hey, Mark, it’s Micah. Well, I remembered Micah from about a month ago being on a call with him, and he said, hey, still listening to the podcast. Now. Micah is a part of our Maxwell Leadership team. You can get more information about that elsewhere, but he’s a part of our Maxwell Leadership Team. And Micah became a part of the Maxwell Leadership Team as a podcast listener. He said, I was blown away. And he said, over the last month, I have found a repository of the podcast. He said, in fact, I’m now waking up every single day you go to work with me, and I’m going back and listening to the first episodes of the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. I said, Micah, that’s great. What do you like about it? He said, you had a guy back in the day named Richard Chancy. Now, those of you that have just started listening to podcasts, you got to go back just to listen to Richard Chancy. This was before Maxwell podcast on YouTube. So you’ll have to go back and listen because Richard Chancy was my buddy, Chrissy’s, big buddy of yours. And Richard Chancy was the guy that helped us start. He was my sole host, co host of Maxwell Podcast in the early days. And so, Micah to you, thanks for mentioning that and mentioning Richard Chancy. We did have magic. I’ve got a treat today that’s more than just a listener comment, because in the studio today, driving up from Tampa, Florida, is Richard Chancy’s brother, Mike Chancy. And he’s in the studio today. He wanted to listen. John Maxwell’s been in the studio with us today. He came up, he didn’t even know all that. He just came up and said, man, I want to see what my brother started and the impact of it. And Mike, I’m getting ready to bring you on screen, but the impact of your brother is 31 million downloads, 170 to 180,000 downloads a week because of the guy that was my co host on the first few episodes. And so, podcast families, special treat for us today. Meet Mike Chancy. Come in here, buddy. Take my spot, man. Sit down right here. Good to see you. Sit down right here. So one thing you need to know about Mike Chancy is there’s almost a week that doesn’t go by that Mike Chancy sends me a text with some message, some thought, and he says to me this is his words. He says to me, he says, Mark, keep at it. Your wake has no limits.

Chris Goede:

Wow.

Mark Cole:

And every time I see that, Chris, I just got to square my shoulders and go, that’s awesome. But anyway, good to have you. I’m so glad you’re here.

Mike Chancy:

So glad to be here, man. So glad to be here. What an awesome day. I mean, Chris Goede, John Maxwell, Mark. It’s been overwhelming. It’s been overwhelming just to be in here talking with Jake and just kind of reminiscing on some early memories and startup times with he and Richard, which it’s been cool.

Chris Goede:

Let me jump in real quick. So Mark talked know, Richard being on the early podcast and his partner, what a lot of people don’t know is if you thought they had a connection on air on a mic, you should have been in a room when they were hashing it out outside of Speaking of Landmines. And not only that, but, man, he was the one that absolutely pushed Mark and John to be able to do this. And it wasn’t something we were comfortable doing. And, you know, obviously, you guys know, and so the dynamics they’re off of that. And I just want you to know real quick, there’s not a day I get the privilege of being on here a couple of times a month with Mark and them. There’s not a day that I come in here for recording and think about, man, the impact of his decision to push and to argue with you and to throw stuff up on the wall to make this happen. 31 million people, that’s insane. And the fact that you’d be here today is awesome.

Mark Cole:

That’s insane. It is. So it was Thanksgiving week or Thanksgiving season 19 or 19, 2019. Richard Chancy recorded his last podcast with me and one day later decided that he needed to go make an impact in eternity. And so we were there the day before recording our podcast. Hey, so anyway, thank you, Richard. We stand on his shoulders. And I’m so glad you’re here today. I did want to do one thing. So you’re a leader in your own right. You’re doing crazy, wonderful things. And you were telling me earlier that you’re getting ready to use five levels to help some regional leaders in your company. Tell me a little bit what you’re telling me.

Mike Chancy:

I work for a fantastic organization called Wawa, and my leader, who has really impacted me and his leadership skills, tasked me with actually leading a group of assistant general managers for the region. So there’s about 15 of these young people, these young leaders that are coming in. And so as I’m putting together this format of what we want that to look like with me and three other leaders that are helping lead this segment is one of those segments was how can we impact these guys as leaders? I mean, they’re young people. I’m talking in their early and so, you know, they’re infertiles as far as how do I lead, they’re still in that policy driven leader format and how do I get out of that? And so as I was thinking through that, I was like, John and the five levels of leadership so impacted me. And it had been a long time since I’d even look at it. So as I went back and reviewing notes, mark, I’m taking inventory of going, oh, my gosh, man, I’ve missed some marks on here. And so even as the content has aged, it still holds value, even for someone like me who has read it two or three different times. But really what I wanted to do was take this and take these guys from position to pinnacle and really get them into that people segment where, as John said in the last segment we just heard, he said, leadership functions on basis of trust. And I love that. And it’s up to me as a leader in this company for these young people to trust and to hear that truth and to come through.

Mark Cole:

So you were telling me that and then old Chris Goede over here and I told him right before we went on today this what did you tell hime you were going to do?

Chris Goede:

I walked in and they’re talking about five levels. I said, I’m in. He’s like, what do you mean you’re in? And I said, I’ll come speak to your company. I just love it. You know how passionate I am about it. And he said, man, you should have told me that. I said, now listen, I’m not going to get you out of it because you need to do it. You need to be stretched, figured out. But, yeah, I said, Man, I’ll come speak to your company anytime on five levels.

Mark Cole:

What you do and this is literally what you do when you do podcast recording, you’re going to go down there, you’re on dime, and you’re going to teach him five levels to get him jump started on Chris 100%.

Chris Goede:

100%.

Mark Cole:

So what’s the problem here? Is it just a Chancy thing?

Chris Goede:

That’s right. No, listen, this is our DNA, right? We add value to people first. And so this is how we have built relationships around the world with all types of organizations. So let’s do this right. Maxwellleadership.com/5Levels. The number five. Maxwellleadership.com/5Levels with an S on the end. And use the number five. Just we’ll have a form there. Fill that out and let us know if you’d like for myself or one of our team to come speak on five levels of leadership to your organization. It is what it’s what we do every day around the world. And so I don’t know how we’ll call it the Chancy Special.

Mike Chancy:

Love it, man.

Chris Goede:

But didn’t even have any clue or any idea, and I walked in, and we’re talking about this. And I love that you’re going to do that for the organization.

Mark Cole:

Well, I appreciate you, Chris.

Chris Goede:

Simply profound are the principles that are just they sustain their sustainability inside organizations.

Mark Cole:

Hey, so, Micah, I hope you are enjoying all the past podcasts that you listen to. I’m so glad, Micah, that you came up here. Appreciate you, appreciate what your brothers put into this. But podcast, family, all of this, we love all of it, but all of it is for you, because we believe the world deserves great leadership. We believe we need to bring powerful, positive change because everyone deserves to be led well.