Executive Podcast #346: How Leaders Handle Criticism

Perry Holley:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast where our goal is to help you increase your reputation as a leader, increase your ability to influence others, and increase your ability to fully engage your team to deliver remarkable results. Hi, I’m Perry Holley a. Maxwell Leadership facilitator and coach.

Chris Goede:
And I’m Chris Goede, executive vice president with Maxwell Leadership. Welcome and thank you for, for joining. I do want to encourage you before we get started. If you’ll go to MaxwellLeadership.com/Podcast, if you’ll click on this podcast, there you’ll be able to download a learner guide that Perry’s created for you. Also, you can leave a a comment or question or maybe a leadership challenge that you’re having that you’d love for us to unpack in the future. And we’ll do our best to be able to serve you in that way. Well, today’s topic is titled How Leaders Handle Criticism. Criticism.

Chris Goede:
I, I’m not sure I’ve never had criticism before, as far as I know, at least to my face or I’ve like shut down my ears, right? I, I went into a space where no one could hear me and I couldn’t hear anybody else. But man, this is something that for me, it’s at the core of growth, right? Like we’ve got to get as leaders, no matter what, what your role is, no matter how long you’ve been a ten year, no matter. It doesn’t matter. We’ve got to figure this out. So I’m super excited about talking about it.

Perry Holley:
I had a coaching client, he said he was had received some criticism about some decision or something. And then he just said, I don’t know why I want to be in leadership. I don’t know why I decided to do this. And I remember John saying that leaders can count on two things. One, you’re going to get criticized and two, it’s going to affect you or change you. And I just wanted that last one. Does it change you? Does it? What do you think about that?

Chris Goede:
Yes, and I think it should, because I think that John talks a lot about evaluating your experiences. Not just the experience, but if you evaluate the experience and the things that you could then learn from that criticism or that experience will make you better. So how do you take a position as a leader to let it shape you and your leadership, not define who you are. And so you and I could both sit here and for the next days probably talk about criticism that we have received over our leadership careers. Some of it, we would say is extremely valid. Others we probably Maybe question. But if we go through it, the right process, it should have shaped us, it should have impacted us in one way or another. Now, at times it impacted me on a negative side.

Chris Goede:
At times maybe it was positive. And I think that we’ve got to be open to that and figure out, you know, what are the triggers, how do we go through the process, how do we learn from it, how do we evaluate it. But I do think it should absolutely change you.

Perry Holley:
I agree. I remember being a young leader and being criticized and how I don’t know if I just kind of was a slap in the face of, wait a minute. I thought everybody liked me, everybody would love what I do. Everybody was going to be with me.

Chris Goede:
Here comes Barry.

Perry Holley:
I don’t know what I was thinking. It was naive best, but the. To wake up to the fact that not everybody’s going to like what you do, not everybody’s going to be on your side, not everybody’s going to pull for you. Although we try hard, we talk about the five levels and building those relationships, building that connection, building that common ground and, and showing that we’re trying to help people, that we care for people and that we’re, you can trust me, those types of things. But as we put those together, you know, think about how I can learn to handle criticism better. And part of it. I have several points here, but, you know, one of them, number one, was to maintain my humility in the fact that, you know, as impressed as I am with myself, not everybody else is going to be and maybe I shouldn’t be so. But I just, just remain humble in the fact that I don’t know everything, I won’t get everything right.

Perry Holley:
I’m. I’m open to what other people think ever. I’m doing my best. But that humility of not thinking less of myself, but thinking of myself less, putting myself in. In other people’s sho do that.

Chris Goede:
So, yeah, I love that you’re starting with this. Maintain your humility. I think we could even almost put it where you’re going to have to increase your humility. Right. Like to your point. And I think the more seasoned you are, you’re much more seasoned than I am. I think when you go down that road, I think when you go down that road, I think it is about maintaining because you have learned right over the years. And we still, we still have flaws, we still struggle.

Chris Goede:
We still with a. Talk about it, with our inner circle and it may bother us, but you’ve understand that. But I think as leaders are growing and as learning. If you have a pretty big ego, then I’m just telling you, remember, leadership career also means your influence career. So that means you’re going to get criticism from people that aren’t even necessarily directly working with you day to day, and they’re going to have a perspective that is their perspective, and they’re going to criticize you without maybe even knowing the complete story. And so how do you not get caught up in that? How do you allow your ego? How do you. How do you increase your humility in those types of situations and other situations as a leader so that you’re not immediately defending and you’re not reacting, but yet, to your point, you’re sitting in that and maintaining your humility through that so that we can learn from it.

Perry Holley:
I think of Tim Elmore teaching us to.

Chris Goede:
I know where you’re going. So good.

Perry Holley:
Yeah. To. To be confident and humble at the same time. And then as again, another Tim Elmore was, I talk like I’m right, a lot of confidence coming out of me, But I listen like I’m wrong, which is where the humility kicks in. I think, you know, I can act like I’m right, but when I get the criticism, I listen like I’m wrong. Tell me more.

Chris Goede:
Yeah, And I love. He wrote that book, Leadership Paradoxes, to your point, because that is relevant, that is prevalent in our leadership. There are going to be paradoxes, and this is kind of one of them. So I absolutely love that. Well, the second one is, man, face the criticism squarely. And when you talk about listen like I’m wrong, I wrote down here, be curious. We hadn’t talked about curious in several weeks. Right.

Chris Goede:
But we. We love this word because I think leaders that are extremely curious become better leaders. But in regards to this man, really try to be curious about where that criticism is coming from without getting defensive. That’s hard for me. Right. Like, I’m an achiever. If you follow the enneagram, we do all kinds of personality profiles. I’m an enneagram.

Chris Goede:
Three, like, and it’s about achievement. And so if someone criticizes that something didn’t get done. Right. I immediately go like personally. And especially when it is a personal. A. A person that is tied to you personally.

Perry Holley:
Right, right.

Chris Goede:
Because you get to get defensive more than you do, you know, professionally at times. And so how do you get to a point where you’d be curious? And I was listening to a Craig Groeschel podcast, which, by the way, phenomenal leadership podcast, and he was talking about really interviewing people but he was learning more about people and he’s like, I really have to get to the third question before I really even start to get to the root of where that answer came from. I wonder if that’s the same thing in regards to people being critical of us. And so how do we get, how do we face it? How do we want to learn from it? I think you got to be curious through it. The other thing I think is you just got to make sure that you understand it’s their perspective, but evaluate it, like, evaluate what they’re saying to you. And then if there is an opportunity, I shouldn’t say if because we don’t want to leave it on my shoulders. Make this decision. I would say then evolve from what you’re hearing and understand, man, it is criticism and we can use it for, for good.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, I appreciate that. I, I think that facing it squarely to me is that head on. Just tell me the truth. Is it criticism or is it constructive feedback?

Chris Goede:
Right. And that’s Right.

Perry Holley:
And I’m trying to decide, I’m discerning that, you know, is it worthy of my attention? Is it worthy of my paying attention? And so I, I, while I appreciate you felt the, the comfort to criticize me, are you trying to help me?

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
Or are you trying to make yourself feel better? Yeah, yeah.

Chris Goede:
Like, yeah. Back to several weeks podcast on, you know, leaders who just want followers. Right, right. Like, like, where are you coming from? The other thing I’ll say too is this, is that we are also not encouraging people that feel like they don’t feel safe with the criticism that they may be receiving to sit in it. Right. Like that. We’re not encouraging that whatsoever. That’s a completely different story.

Chris Goede:
But I think understanding their perspective and really trying to be curious about that, I think we’ll shed light on where that motive is coming from.

Perry Holley:
That’s a good word. Right.

Chris Goede:
That you can, you’ll be able to intuitively probably be able to tell.

Perry Holley:
Yeah, that’s kind of the best. Great word. I didn’t have that. But the difference between criticism and constructive feedback, maybe motive.

Chris Goede:
Maybe the motive. Yeah.

Perry Holley:
That’s why they’re doing it.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
You know, number three was be specific about the issue itself. So it kind of follows on. I’m going to face it squarely. But you can’t just, you can’t just say, I got to. I don’t feel that you did. No. Tell me the specifics about the situation. I want to get details because I can’t fix what I don’t understand.

Perry Holley:
But I also want to know, do I have a problem or do you have a problem? If I have a problem, go back. Number one, embrace my humility. Is they. I want to hear from you. I want you to feel free to speak to me. I want you to feel that you have a voice. But I have to validate. I tell people this, executives this all the time when we’re doing 360 assessments.

Perry Holley:
And if you’re not familiar with 360, that people above you, beside you, and below you anonymously tell you what they think about you, it’s a very humbling experience. But I also say, you know, consider the source, and you tell me if it’s coming from your peers and they’re telling you this. Peers have different motives.

Chris Goede:
Yes.

Perry Holley:
Your boss telling you is probably motivated, probably from a good place, trying to make you better. If your people are telling you this, that’s probably from a pretty good place. They’re trying to make you better. Is it worthy of your attention? Is it? You’re allowed to say thank you very much and then put it aside 100%. But you’re also, I think it’s wise to say, like you said, be curious. Tell me more, but give me the specifics. Tell me, was it a situation? Was it an event? Was it an action? Was it a. Words? Was what did I.

Perry Holley:
What. What exactly are you criticizing? You can’t just criticize the. It didn’t feel right.

Chris Goede:
Right.

Perry Holley:
I need to know the specifics of it.

Chris Goede:
Well, in doing that, to your point, I love the fact you said, I mean, tell me, like, what. Give me. Give me a situation. If you can’t get that, don’t just say, oh, well, well, then they don’t understand and just walk away. No, be. Be curious. Ask targeted question. Don’t allow.

Chris Goede:
Like, if they have that criticism, try to learn from it. Try to dig and truly understand. The only way you can do that is by asking targeted questions. If they’re not willing to give you the specifics. I know for me, I’ve been through an experience before where I’ve received some criticism. And someone once told me, they said, hey, if it’s just one time, okay, it’s probably a signal. Be aware of it. You know, learn from it.

Chris Goede:
But if it is something that you’re hearing a common theme and it happens multiple times, well, maybe that’s a pattern. And he said to me, he said, and a pattern needs to be a priority of yours, right? And that is like, hey, we gotta. It’s more than happening more than one person, more than one time. And so that’s why Perry and I are challenging you, saying, man, get to the specifics and really dig in and get targeted questions. Be curious to try to figure that out because you want to know, you want to improve, you want to. You don’t want there to be patterns in there of your influence with people.

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Chris Goede:
Number four is determine if there’s action required. And I love this because you’re, you’re saying to us, hey, not everything needs a response. This is like, it’s an issue, you’ve been criticized, maybe it’s a person, whatever it might be, like, hey, let’s determine what our next steps. And that’s not always that we need to respond, but I think we need to make sure we understand. And so is there action we need to take? Is it. Do we need to, do we need a right or wrong? Do we need to make sure that we are doing right versus being right? You know, like what, like go through that process to make sure that you fix whatever you may have done and you didn’t realize it until you received the, the, the criticism. And so one of the ways to do this is again, if you have determined, as Perry said, it’s not always, but if you determine one way to do, do this is communicate in a way to this individual or the situation. It’s like, hey, here’s what I heard from you and here is what I’m going to do to address it, like, acknowledge it in a way.

Chris Goede:
If you feel comfortable in the moment knowing that you need and you’ve determined to take action, that is one way you can go about doing it.

Perry Holley:
If you, if you receive some criticism, you go away, you reflect on it, you agree that there’s an action required. Do you think it’s important to circle Back to the criticizer, to the person that gave you that.

Chris Goede:
I do.

Perry Holley:
I do too.

Chris Goede:
I do too now. And I’m a. There are people that do it a lot faster than I do. I am a processor, and so I like to analyze things and think about it a little bit longer than maybe other people. And so I have a different pace of doing that. But I do think that is the right. The right thing to do.

Perry Holley:
Yeah. I think it just closes the first of all, it says, I value your end 100, even though it was hard. And I appreciate you taking a risk and telling me.

Chris Goede:
Yeah.

Perry Holley:
And I. Here’s the action I’ve taken, and I’m opening the door for you to hold me accountable, I guess, is what I’m feeling.

Chris Goede:
I love that. Yeah.

Perry Holley:
Account.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. Right.

Perry Holley:
Goes back to humility again.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. I love that. I didn’t even think about that. I love that. Because now, you know, you told somebody. Yeah. That you’re going to address it, and now there’s accountability tied to that. And so I absolutely love that.

Chris Goede:
I also have heard John Maxwell say in the past that some of the greatest mentor relationships he’s ever had were men and women that he would spend time with and he would give them constructive feedback. And then the next time he met with them, they came back and. And said, hey, I. I heard you. Here’s what I’ve done with what you encouraged me to do, and here were the results. And John will tell you right now that if you’re doing that in a mentoring relationship, then that mentoring relationship is going to continue because they’re seeing fruit. He’s seeing fruit from his investment. I think it’s the same thing with criticism.

Chris Goede:
To your point, not only does it hold you accountable, but then it makes people feel like their time for coming to you, if it was valid, was valuable to you, that they did that because it was for your best interest, like, they want you to be aware of it. But the determine is the key word that you put in there. And I really like that. Like, you have to determine that. And we’re not saying that in all criticism, you need to do that.

Perry Holley:
Right. Right. Number five is said restore the relationship with the criticizers, if that’s necessary. If it was hard news, it was direct. Maybe it was personal. Something John taught us in laws of communication was let your connection be stronger than your content. And I think about this all the time at home especially, but also with the team at work is that connection over content pairing connection over content is that even though you hard thing to Say to someone, can you preserve the relationship and say it? A lot of us say hard things and ruin relationships. I break the connection with my wife or with my kids or with my teammates or with my boss or with my peers because I felt like I had the right to say that.

Perry Holley:
I had a right to criticize. No, you may have the freedom to say it. It’s not a right. But even if you said hard things, can you do it in a way that preserves our relationship? So sometimes I’m noticing criticize situations. Relationships get harm. I’m just saying if you need to restore. Restore relationships are always more important than whatever content you have to share.

Chris Goede:
How do you feel? Let me stay here for just a minute. I want to ask you. How do you feel in regards to. Yes, I love. We’re going to restore the relationships with the criticizers. If you receive it the right way and you have the humility that we started off with, oftentimes the relationship probably is going to be in store from their perspective. You may internally be. Be struggling with that.

Chris Goede:
Is it okay then to also be like, hey, I appreciate that we’re just going to agree to disagree and leave it where it is and let it sit in there is. And then you’re not necessarily addressing that. You’re not probably going to change it because you’re agreeing to disagree. Does that impact the relationship of that? So you come to me and I say, hey, thanks, Perry board. You’re going to agree to disagree. And I just keep going. Whatever it is, didn’t necessarily receive it, value it, whatever. Agree to disagree.

Chris Goede:
Or maybe I did. And as I processed it and I was curious and I dug. Is that a tension point for relationship? How does that in regards to. I know I’m putting you on the spot, but no, no, I’m sitting here thinking about this and going. Because there are times all of us will be like, I appreciate that, but I’m gonna agree, disagree. I think that I should eat that Whopper, and I’m gonna do it right now. Right. So I’m actually.

Chris Goede:
I’m trying to get Perry to help me with what’s going to happen tonight when I pick up a burger in the home.

Perry Holley:
You’re bringing charcuterie home.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. So, you know, how does that come across? Like, how do you go about that? Like, going. And then. Is that the right language to use when you know you’re being criticized?

Perry Holley:
You know, I like. I think I see where you’re going, but. So you’ve given me. You’ve criticized me. I’ve assessed it. I determined that I did the right thing. I made the right call. I.

Perry Holley:
You just don’t like it. And am I under obligation to make you feel better about my decision?

Chris Goede:
There you go. That’s. I didn’t articulate like that, but I think that’s where I’m going.

Perry Holley:
I don’t think I’m under any obligation to make you like my decision. Although I go back to your. You made a great point about curiosity. I’m curious, why are you objecting? Why are you criticizing this? And so I might learn something with my humility. I might actually learn. How did you see it? Maybe I did. Maybe I communicated it wrong. Or maybe you heard something I didn’t say.

Perry Holley:
Or maybe I said something I shouldn’t have said. I have to evaluate. Why are you criticizing? Because I’m not changing and I’m not actually apologizing for it. But I don’t. I appreciate you bringing it to my attention because maybe. Maybe I made a bad communication.

Chris Goede:
Right.

Perry Holley:
Did other people see it this way? But you’re the only one with the courage to come and tell me, talk about it. Yeah, but I. Let’s say you said we’re going to agree to disagree. I might just tack onto that. But I really appreciate you having the courage to come and tell me. And now I think the relationship is solid. And they say, well, you don’t ever do anything I say. Yeah, well, I do, actually, and I’m open to that.

Perry Holley:
In this situation. I’m not.

Chris Goede:
Yeah. And I like that. I like both of those closing statements right there. Because I think even you just saying to me, I’m imagining we’re having this conversation. It’s like, okay, well, he heard me. Value what I said. We’re going to agree to disagree and move on. And that’s not going to be every time.

Chris Goede:
And hopefully you’re not having the same person give you Chris. Is that every time too? But it’s in situations where. No, no, no. You really believe that you had the right motive and you were doing the right thing. It just. They. They didn’t feel right about it, so they’re bringing it up to you. Yeah.

Chris Goede:
So, all right, the sixth one here that Perry has forces reflect on what happened and then capture any lessons learned. This goes back to what we were talking about earlier about at 100 evaluated. Experience. Let. Let this whole experience, whatever it is, let it sharpen your leadership lens. Allow. Take something from it. Right.

Chris Goede:
Like there. Everybody in this world is different. Right. Than you. And so they received it. Their bias to their lens of what happened was one way. So allow that to expand your leadership lens. And then we’re working right now.

Chris Goede:
And you are working very closely with Valerie Burton on resilience. Right. Not only does John talk about what he talked about earlier about, about constructive or criticism. Constructive feedback or criticism, but he also says there’s never two good days in a leader’s life. Okay. And he. And he’s not. Yeah.

Chris Goede:
And he’s. Nope, no hold button, no holding back in a row. Yeah. And so this is going to happen. And so allow these experiences and then you evaluate them and you journal them and you think about them. Allow those to increase your resilience as a leader. And this stuff you and Valerie are working on, we’re going to be rolling out to organizations around the world very soon that we’re excited about. But just thinking through that while you guys are working on and taking this.

Chris Goede:
And it’s going to happen. It is absolutely going to happen. And so how do you go about doing that and learn from it and journal, allow change your lens a little bit of how they received information and then allow it to reinforce your resilience as a leader, because you’re going to absolutely need that. Well, as I wrap up for us today, thought about a couple things. My greatest growth as a leader came from criticism.

Perry Holley:
Yes, I was thinking that, too.

Chris Goede:
And it came from criticism that I probably reacted and defended in a moment.

Perry Holley:
And I forgave you.

Chris Goede:
Well, I was going to bring it up, but now I don’t have to. We’re going to agree to disagree that that was the appropriate comment. But like I, I met some hurt, some didn’t hurt as bad, some I defended, some I accepted, some I did. Some things we talked about today, others I haven’t. But no doubt about it, the best growth I’ve ever had as a leader has come from some of those conversations that were hard for me to hear. And so just know that it comes. Criticism comes from all shapes and sizes and places, and you’re not going to be expecting it. And you’re going to all of a sudden get a phone call or a text and it’s going to come out of the blue.

Chris Goede:
So expect it, embrace it, learn from it. And then my challenge to you is to lead better from it, because I know that you and I are sitting here today and we’re leading differently and we’re leading better. We’re leading more effectively because of people that cared enough about us to criticize us or give us constructive feedback. I like using constructive feedback. When they say they cared enough about you. I’ve also heard you talk about this, you know, in rooms even with executives that we may be doing some training with, where it’s like, man, the value I have for that team member and the potential that that team member has to change the world if I don’t, if I don’t give them that constructive feed, if I. And so you also have to understand there are going to be times that people want to give it to you because they what they see in you. And you got to be willing to, to accept that.

Chris Goede:
And it’s not always easy to do that personally or professionally.

Perry Holley:
Right.

Chris Goede:
And so I hope today just gave you maybe a different perspective. I love you brought this topic up because we’re going to get it and we need to know how to handle it and then learn from it.

Perry Holley:
Totally agree. Great insights. Thank you. As a reminder, you can get the learner guide for this issue. You can learn about our other offerings, especially the five levels of leadership or other podcast offerings. You can get all that at MaxwellLeadership.com/Podcast. You can also leave us a question or a comment there. We love hearing from you and we’re grateful that you’d spend this time with us today.

Perry Holley:
That’s all from the Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast.

Transcript created by Castmagic.